Rap Argument Thread (split from top 5 albums)

[TheOriginalGrumpySpy]

I considered a Dre album probably 2001, but I have to say you would be neither better nor worse off for listening to it.

[KT.]

Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

I considered a Dre album probably 2001, but I have to say you would be neither better nor worse off for listening to it.

If the topic was best rap albums, I'd say Dr. Dre's 2001 would definitely be on the list. However I do agree with you that 2001 does not make the cut as far as an album everyone should listen to before they die.

[mkdisciple]

Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

I considered a Dre album probably 2001, but I have to say you would be neither better nor worse off for listening to it.

Originally Posted by KT

ither better nor worse off for listening to it.
If the topic was best rap albums, I'd say Dr. Dre's 2001 would definitely be on the list. However I do agree with you that 2001 does not make the cut as far as an album everyone should listen to before they die.

Dre 2001 wouldn't even make the top 20 best rap albums. There's so much better out there.

[Atmoscheer]

rapfags are as bad as potheads

[simonj]

Especially when they're also potheads. And white.

[babar]

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p...0:ogd2vwdta9rk


http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/articl...in-madvillainy


http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p...0:0jfwxq8sldae

All you need.

p.s. happy birthday j dilla (RIP)

[mkdisciple]

I've been listening to a lot of Operation Doomsday and mm Food a lot lately. Two good albums there although Doom's flow is strange.

[Crysack]

My prejudices are going to show here....but...

...there should not be a single rap album on this list.

[babar]

Originally Posted by Crysack

My prejudices are going to show here....but...

...there should not be a single rap album on this list.

That is true for rap, but not hip-hop.

[Killuminati]

Originally Posted by babar

That is true for rap, but not hip-hop.

Don't even try. This site is full of such fucking nerdy ass kids that they hate anything close to rap/hip hop. It doesn't matter what you say to back it up either.

[djwolford]

Originally Posted by babar

That is true for rap, but not hip-hop.

I'd say that it's true for hip-hop, but not rap. Different strokes I suppose...

[Shinysides]

Originally Posted by Crysack

My prejudices are going to show here....but...

...there should not be a single rap album on this list.

Your close mindedness is showing. That is your personal opinion. If you haven't listened to the albums I said though, don't tell me they shouldn't be on here. Thats really not your place to say, especially if you haven't even listened to it. I didn't/wouldn't judge you by your music choices, why do you feel free to do so to me with mine?

[Pepsi]

Or, they're so nerdy that they try to be cool by listening to hip-hop.

[Pepsi]

Damn it, it didn't quote.

Anyway, that was in response to Killuminati.

[UnreasonablyReasonable]

I LOL at those who act like rap is a separate genre from hip-hop. Some people say hip-hop is more about the culture, and rapping about things that are "real," whereas rap is rapping about big screen tv's, blunts, 40's, and bitches. Give me a break.

[Pepsi]

Hey...um...way to show your belief in stereotypes.

[Pepsi]

Really though, rap tends to be more rhythmic while hip-hop is more pop and dance. Hip-hop is multi-instrumental as well.

Rap: Nas, Eminem

Hip-hop: Jurassic 5, De La Soul

Also, hip-hop is a lifestyle which includes DJing, breakdancing, rapping, etc...but I'm separating the music end.

[Shinysides]

Originally Posted by UnreasonablyReasonable

I LOL at those who act like rap is a separate genre from hip-hop. Some people say hip-hop is more about the culture, and rapping about things that are "real," whereas rap is rapping about big screen tv's, blunts, 40's, and bitches. Give me a break.

Rap and Hip Hop are different styles of music. I swear to god, why do people think they can break an entire culture down into a few artists who admittedly are only trying to further their own monetary goals. Not all rappers are the same, and as I've learned from internet forums, there is an underground movement behind every genre of music, and said movement usually tends to be better than mainstream shit. I can't help you if you listen to rap on the radio and enjoy it. That just means you like that particular kind of rap, which in my opinion is awful. However, underground rap/hip-hop is completely different, and if you haven't listened to it, don't pass judgment on it.Seriously, why is everyone such a little bitch about music? Why do I have to listen to your music? I don'tforce you guys to listen to mine, but when you say something so general as "rap is rapping about big screen tv's, blunts, 40's, and bitches" it is rude. I did not generalize your shitty taste in music, don't do it to mine.

[babar]

Artists like Lil Jon, Mims, Lil Wayne, 50 Cent, D4L, etc. give a really bad name for rap, that's why they think like that. They grew up on real hip hop, and were smart enough businessmen to make money off of exploiting it with bubblegum choruses and cheesy beats. Basically: "My favorite rapper is your favorite rappers favorite rapper." They aren't in it for the love of the music, they are in it for the money and their music reflects that. Idk if people on CD will ever realize that besides a select few on here. There is a lot of better hip hop out there, you just have to find it.

I prefer to call the genre's 'mainstream rap' 'alternative hip-hop' and 'underground hip-hop' also there is 'instrumental hip-hop' like j dilla - donuts.

[Shinysides]

Oh, and to whoever "Couldn't be bothered to read my wall of text", could you not be bothered to leave your name on the neg rep either you little girl? And in the future, if you don't have the mental capacity to read more than eight words at a time, that is your fault, not mine.

And for everyone who thinks rap is all about bitches and money, check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOjlDetGQIs

[Crysack]

Originally Posted by Killuminati

Don't even try. This site is full of such fucking nerdy ass kids that they hate anything close to rap/hip hop. It doesn't matter what you say to back it up either.

...and I suppose you're one of those wimpy douchebags who listen to 'Fitty Cent' and think about how hardcore they are.

Don't be fucking ridiculous. I dislike the majority of rap and hip-hop I hear and I'm completely free to do so. I'm not judging any of you for liking such genres, I am merely informing you of my opinion that no rap artist I have ever heard deserves to be on this list.

Unless someone can convince me otherwise...

[Mr. E]

Don't be such a douche Killuminati. If you are asserting that any less than 98% of all rap and hip-hop ever produced is shit then you are kidding yourself. Most rock and jazz and other genres are mostly shit too, but it is more like 90-95% shit (depending on the genre). Of course there is good rap and good hip-hop, but most of it isn't.

The general dislike of rap by most of the members of this community I would imagine is based upon the worst of the genre, not the best, because to hear the best you have to go out of your way because niggers don't like the best rap and hip-hop so it doesn't get any play.

[Shinysides]

Originally Posted by Crysack

...and I suppose you're one of those wimpy douchebags who listen to 'Fitty Cent' and think about how hardcore they are.

Don't be fucking ridiculous. I dislike the majority of rap and hip-hop I hear and I'm completely free to do so. I'm not judging any of you for liking such genres, I am merely informing you of my opinion that no rap artist I have ever heard deserves to be on this list.

Unless someone can convince me otherwise...

Crysack, every time you make another anti-rap post, you make yourself look and sound even dumber. It isn't our fucking job to make you like rap. I could give a fuck less what you think. You already did inform us of your opinion moron, no one cared then, and no one cares now. You don't know rap, don't say you do. Now shut the fuck up, put on some Pink Floyd, and go cry in a corner. Seriously, I wouldn't be this hostile about it if you hadn't already proved yourself to be a douchebag. No ones making you listen to our music, and I for one, don't give a flying fuck about your opinion of rap. If you don't like my music, then just shut the fuck up, you don't see me criticizing your musical choices.

You act like your opinion is any bit more important than anyone elses, just because you don't like rap doesn't mean there isn't good rap. It just means your too closeminded to ever experience it. I said it earlier and I'll say it again. Don't generalize my taste in music, it's not like anyone told you Zeppelin sucks. So just drop it, and quit talking about something you know nothing about. If you don't listen to rap, I don't care. It's not my problem. It's only a problem for me when you start running your mouth.

[Killuminati]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

Don't be such a douche Killuminati. If you are asserting that any less than 98% of all rap and hip-hop ever produced is shit then you are kidding yourself. Most rock and jazz and other genres are mostly shit too, but it is more like 90-95% shit (depending on the genre). Of course there is good rap and good hip-hop, but most of it isn't.

How am I being a douche when no one who listens to hip hop said ANYTHING negative about anyone's choice of music. Then someone mentions rap and people immediately start saying shit like.

"There isn't a single rap album everyone should listen to before they die. "

"rapfags are as bad as potheads "

"My prejudices are going to show here....but...

...there should not be a single rap album on this list. "

What the fuck is that shit? I don't understand how people talk shit on rap but don't talk shit on other genres. EVERY GENRE has a lot of shitty mainstream music. They also all have good music true to the genre that isn't just bullshit. I tend to prefer rap but I listen to a lot of rock, some metal, whatever I listen to and enjoy. Why can't other people have this mindset. Let people listen to what they want and don't fucking say shit about it. If someone posts some rap albums why not actually fucking listen to some of it before you say anything. I can understand being critical of artists but only for legitimate reasons, don't just blindly stereotype an entire fucking genre of music based on a few songs you hear on the radio. I mean what good music is there on the radio anymore? Sure they will play a few good songs here and there but for the most part it's just shitty.

Mr. E I don't understand where you are getting these percentages of good music to shitty music for different genres. Oh wait I do, you are just pulling them out of your ass. Have you heard every fucking song ever made in any genre and listened to them competely objectively? No you haven't, so you can't just make up statistics.

Originally Posted by mr. e

The general dislike of rap by most of the members of this community I would imagine is based upon the worst of the genre, not the best, because to hear the best you have to go out of your way because niggers don't like the best rap and hip-hop so it doesn't get any play.

So it's ok for me to tell people that their genre of choice is shitty because I choose to listen to a mainstream songs I knew were going to be garbage? Oh hey let's judge music based on the "WORST OF THE GENRE". How can you not understand that this kind of attitude would piss someone off who actually listens to the good music of that genre. It's frustrating because people don't even give it a chance and completely write it off as terrible.

edit: and crysack what shinysides said is exactly what I think.

edit2: oh yea and crysack let me tell you about my favorite rapper 50 cent.

[Mr. E]

I can make up whatever the fuck I want to.

[Pepsi]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

I can make up whatever the fuck I want to.

You are the black Giovanni.

[Crysack]

Originally Posted by Shinysides

Crysack, every time you make another anti-rap post, you make yourself look and sound even dumber. It isn't our fucking job to make you like rap. I could give a fuck less what you think. You already did inform us of your opinion moron, no one cared then, and no one cares now. You don't know rap, don't say you do. Now shut the fuck up, put on some Pink Floyd, and go cry in a corner. Seriously, I wouldn't be this hostile about it if you hadn't already proved yourself to be a douchebag. No ones making you listen to our music, and I for one, don't give a flying fuck about your opinion of rap. If you don't like my music, then just shut the fuck up, you don't see me criticizing your musical choices.

You act like your opinion is any bit more important than anyone elses, just because you don't like rap doesn't mean there isn't good rap. It just means your too closeminded to ever experience it. I said it earlier and I'll say it again. Don't generalize my taste in music, it's not like anyone told you Zeppelin sucks. So just drop it, and quit talking about something you know nothing about. If you don't listen to rap, I don't care. It's not my problem. It's only a problem for me when you start running your mouth.

You've missed the point of my post. I was responding to Killuminati's unwarranted personal attack with a similar generalisation.

...and if you don't give a fuck what other people think, why are you bothering to post on a forum (y'know, a site intended for discussion and personal opinion). Besides the fact, I have heard (and own) the large majority of the rap/hip-hop albums listed in this thread and the ONLY one I would consider being a 'must-listen to' is Wu-Tang's debut.

[Pepsi]

Originally Posted by Crysack

You've missed the point of my post. I was responding to Killuminati's unwarranted personal attack with a similar generalisation.

...and if you don't give a fuck what other people think, why are you bothering to post on a forum (y'know, a site intended for discussion and personal opinion). Besides the fact, I have heard (and own) the large majority of the rap/hip-hop albums listed in this thread and the ONLY one I would consider being a 'must-listen to' is Wu-Tang's debut.

This site is not for personal opinion!

They're slowly taking over our brains so that we become Tengu's cheeseburger eating zombies, Sole's guinea pigs for experiments on how to make people taller, and gwahir's mindless actors for when he becomes a world-famous director.

[UnreasonablyReasonable]

Originally Posted by Shinysides

Rap and Hip Hop are different styles of music. I swear to god, why do people think they can break an entire culture down into a few artists who admittedly are only trying to further their own monetary goals. Not all rappers are the same, and as I've learned from internet forums, there is an underground movement behind every genre of music, and said movement usually tends to be better than mainstream shit. I can't help you if you listen to rap on the radio and enjoy it. That just means you like that particular kind of rap, which in my opinion is awful. However, underground rap/hip-hop is completely different, and if you haven't listened to it, don't pass judgment on it.Seriously, why is everyone such a little bitch about music? Why do I have to listen to your music? I don'tforce you guys to listen to mine, but when you say something so general as "rap is rapping about big screen tv's, blunts, 40's, and bitches" it is rude. I did not generalize your shitty taste in music, don't do it to mine.

I didn't say all rappers were the same, or that all rap music is the same. But it is still all rap and all hip-hop, they are interchangeable terms that some people can try to separate just as people can try to separate rock from good rock, but it's still all rock. Also, how did nobody get my reference to the Marshall Mathers LP with the "blunts, 40s, and bitches" comment? That's certainly one that any hip-hop buff should know. Not to mention they should know that I named two rap CDs (which are also the ONLY two albums I named) as my MUST listen-to albums for anyone.

Here they are again for those lazy like me:
A Piece of Strange by the Cunninlynguists and
Archetype by Tonedeff
for anyone who is open-minded enough to check them out. If you're looking for the most poignant lyrics you've ever heard then listen to Tonedeff's album, if you want a complete album with the best production that exists and a storyline that gets told a little more on each track, then check out the CL album.

Originally Posted by babar

Artists like Lil Jon, Mims, Lil Wayne, 50 Cent, D4L, etc. give a really bad name for rap, that's why they think like that. They grew up on real hip hop, and were smart enough businessmen to make money off of exploiting it with bubblegum choruses and cheesy beats. Basically: "My favorite rapper is your favorite rappers favorite rapper." They aren't in it for the love of the music, they are in it for the money and their music reflects that. Idk if people on CD will ever realize that besides a select few on here. There is a lot of better hip hop out there, you just have to find it.

I prefer to call the genre's 'mainstream rap' 'alternative hip-hop' and 'underground hip-hop' also there is 'instrumental hip-hop' like j dilla - donuts.

Yeah I understand and can sympathize with that, but I don't get calling certain rap music 'hip-hop.' It is fine if it's just another way to say rap, but trying to make some line between the two makes that person sound arrogant and elitist.

Originally Posted by Killuminati

How am I being a douche when no one who listens to hip hop said ANYTHING negative about anyone's choice of music. Then someone mentions rap and people immediately start saying shit like.

"There isn't a single rap album everyone should listen to before they die. "

"rapfags are as bad as potheads "

"My prejudices are going to show here....but...

...there should not be a single rap album on this list. "

What the fuck is that shit? I don't understand how people talk shit on rap but don't talk shit on other genres. EVERY GENRE has a lot of shitty mainstream music. They also all have good music true to the genre that isn't just bullshit. I tend to prefer rap but I listen to a lot of rock, some metal, whatever I listen to and enjoy. Why can't other people have this mindset. Let people listen to what they want and don't fucking say shit about it. If someone posts some rap albums why not actually fucking listen to some of it before you say anything. I can understand being critical of artists but only for legitimate reasons, don't just blindly stereotype an entire fucking genre of music based on a few songs you hear on the radio. I mean what good music is there on the radio anymore? Sure they will play a few good songs here and there but for the most part it's just shitty.

So it's ok for me to tell people that their genre of choice is shitty because I choose to listen to a mainstream songs I knew were going to be garbage? Oh hey let's judge music based on the "WORST OF THE GENRE". How can you not understand that this kind of attitude would piss someone off who actually listens to the good music of that genre. It's frustrating because people don't even give it a chance and completely write it off as terrible.

I definitely agree. This illustrates the problem perfectly. I'm all for people saying whatever they want about any genre of music, but just know that people who spout off stuff like "rapfags, etc..." are instantly less respected amongst anyone who isn't completely stupid and knows better.

Originally Posted by babar

Here's a list of some of my favorite albums:

top 5:
Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GDPZpRmTg0
Madvillain - Madvillainy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4iR668Ki3I
J Dilla - Donuts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68_Io-RPDXE
Quasimoto - The Unseen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_5edxArGT8
Nas - Illmatic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yKDMrX8LlY

Those are just a few classic hip hop albums for all you saying there isn't any good hip-hop.

I'm always confused at how Illmatic has reached such a godly status amongst many rap listeners. Sure the rhymes/lyrics are great, but there are still MUCH better rhymes/lyrics on other albums. Not to mention the lackluster production. I've grown to like the album more over time, but I still don't have any illusions that the beats sound anything but dated.

[Mr. E]

If J Dilla is instrumental hip hop I will give him a listen.

[mkdisciple]

I'm always confused at how Illmatic has reached such a godly status amongst many rap listeners. Sure the rhymes/lyrics are great, but there are still MUCH better rhymes/lyrics on other albums. Not to mention the lackluster production. I've grown to like the album more over time, but I still don't have any illusions that the beats sound anything but dated.

Lackluster production? Premo, Q-Tip, Large Pro and Pete Rock were the best producers around at the time. Illmatic is an album that you never understand on the first try. You really have to listen to it a few HUNDRED times before everything sinks in. Its a masterpiece song so song.



So good Michael Eric Dyson has just released a 265+ book on on the album.

[Killuminati]

Illmatic is one of the best rap albums ever made.

[UnreasonablyReasonable]

Originally Posted by mkdisciple

Lackluster production? Premo, Q-Tip, Large Pro and Pete Rock were the best producers around at the time. Illmatic is an album that you never understand on the first try. You really have to listen to it a few HUNDRED times before everything sinks in. Its a masterpiece song so song.



So good Michael Eric Dyson has just released a 265+ book on on the album.

Yeah, were possibly the best rap producers at the time, but there are much better now. The album just sounds one-dimensional in terms of musicality and the limited vision the producers had for it. Compare that to something like Emerson, Lake & Palmer's first album (self-titled) from 1970 that still sounds completely amazing with lush production. That illustrates that they weren't limited at that time, the rap producers just weren't able to think outside the box.

This isn't to say the beats on Illmatic are bad, I like them fine, but not anywhere near the level that so many people place this album. Anyone who's heard something like Archetype, and then listens to Illmatic for the first time after hearing all the hype about it would completely be like "WTF?" And after the 100th time they'd be even more shocked as to how it got elevated so high. It Was Written was certainly a step up in production quality. Though I can understand ranking Illmatic higher overall.

I just can't imagine anyone who's heard A Piece of Strange saying that Illmatic is even close to as good with a straight face.

Originally Posted by Killuminati

Illmatic is one of the best rap albums ever made.

One of the best I can agree with. It's certainly on my top 25 rap albums list.

[Mr. E]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

If J Dilla is instrumental hip hop I will give him a listen.

I don't understand why I was negarepped for this post, but, to elaborate, I prefer more instrumental hip-hop (like Blockhead) to hip-hop with words. That is just my opinion, I don't really think it is an unfair one.

[babar]

Yeah E, Dilla is my favorite producer. The album Donuts was made with an MPC on the hospital bed. One of the best instrumental hip-hop albums (the best imo) of all time. You can just hear him putting his life into the album.. lots of emotion in it. He was struggling with Lupus since 03 or 04 and passed Feb 10 (today) in 2006.

here's some more info:

Originally Posted by wiki

Donuts is an instrumental hip hop album by producer J Dilla. Donuts was released on February 7, 2006, his 32nd birthday, and only three days before his death. This album was a major breakthrough for this underground artist, in which his unique style could be shown and many see as having subtle meanings in many of its tracks and their names (for example, the titling of "Don't Cry" and "Bye" in light of Dilla's passing afterwards). On Metacritic, Donuts received "universal acclaim" from critics based on an aggregate score of 84/100 from fifteen reviews.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donuts_(album)

[Shinysides]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

I don't understand why I was negarepped for this post, but, to elaborate, I prefer more instrumental hip-hop (like Blockhead) to hip-hop with words. That is just my opinion, I don't really think it is an unfair one.

If you like instrumental hip hop, check out music by Nujabes, you might like it.

[dudeman]

Originally Posted by Mr. E

I don't understand why I was negarepped for this post, but, to elaborate, I prefer more instrumental hip-hop (like Blockhead) to hip-hop with words. That is just my opinion, I don't really think it is an unfair one.

People will negrep you if you prefer regular milk over chocolate milk. 's cool, bro.

[solecistic]

this thread got derailed like what so i split it

k

[Atmoscheer]

now this whole thread is terrible instead of half the other one

[Killuminati]

Originally Posted by Shinysides

If you like instrumental hip hop, check out music by Nujabes, you might like it.

+rep for knowing about Nujabes. Excellent music and Mr. E I think you would like it.

edit: looks like I need to spread out the rep.