Quote Originally Posted by Mr. E View Post
By potential I meant positive human potential. I suppose I should have been more specific..
Why only positive human potential? What about negative potential, as in somebody who will grow up to be a rapist (or an abortionist). If we had the power to know who would become a good human being, would we kill all the babies that don't pass that test?

Quote Originally Posted by Kittens! View Post
Ah, abortion. Always a fun argument because even after you eliminate religion, it is still an incredibly complicated scientific and ethical debate.

Just a disclaimer, all of my arguments run on the secular idea that no soul exists.

A personal solution I offer to this problem is incomplete yet I believe it is more complete than any other theory:
Humans are separated from the other animals on Earth mainly by the existence of an intelligent conscience. I believe this separation should distinguish when an abortion is legal. Up until the presence of a conscience (the start of brain activity to be more accurate) abortion should be legal. This allows plenty of time for drunk 16 year olds and raped mothers to correct the course if they wish.

The most prominent argument against this would be the mere existence of handicapped people. How do you define intelligent? I think there needs to be a standard, such as the existence of basic emotion and response to stimuli. If they pass the test (which 100% of current handicapped people would be able to), great!

Finally, the religious right, in their final death throes, would argue that apes and dolphins too have emotions and a conscience. Since us evil evolutionists think the crazy idea that we came from these apes and dolphins (?) we must put them on the same level as us.

Know what I would say? Fuck you.

Fuck you is right. Apes and dolphins are not on the same level as us. Although I don't believe killing is right (human or dolphin), I don't honestly give a fuck if you do it. I'm not going to question why you killed your baby. Its yours, and if you don't want it, so be it.

When it comes down to it, fetus' know nothing of anything. They have no intelligence, intelligence is something that is learned, you are not born intelligent. Therefore, the baby wouldn't even know it is being killed because it doesn't know that its alive, or what death is, or know emotions. Emotions are all described by words, and thoughts, and since fetus' cant think with logic, they wouldn't even know they had been killed. You're not taking away the life of somebody who knows whats going on, you're taking the life of a dumb fetus that does nothing bur feed off its mother.