Thread: Guns on school campuses?

The number of people who get hit by stray bullets during a "shootout" is almost certainly going to be smaller than the number of people who get shot if gunmen are allowed to complete their rampage. The idea that cops are specially capable of handling situations like that, and most people lack that capability, doesn't really have any basis in reality; it's something that people say when they are uncomfortable with the idea of armed citizens and need some reason to disparage it.

Originally Posted by gismo

How often do cops get into full blown shootouts in packed areas? I'd imagine most of the time they would do their best to evacuate before risking a gunfight.

They certainly try to, but when someone pulls a gun in a crowded place, cops have to react immediately; they can't clear the area of bystanders first. They don't get to choose when they have a gunfight. Again, the risk of a bystander being hit by a stray bullet is a much less significant one than the risk of allowing a school shooter to go on their rampage until the cops arrive.

Originally Posted by gismo

I don't think more guns is the solution. Whilst not causing school shootings etc, they do play a big part in enabling them. Maybe this is just me being cynical, but authorities have had a hell of a time trying to profile would be rampagers, it is a task close to impossible. The idea that doing a class/having a license means you can be trusted with a firearm in public...I know I would be uneasy with this.

Well, it is already the case that getting a CCH license means you can be trusted with a firearm in public; the system obviously works, because CCHL holders are, statistically speaking, far more law-abiding and safe than the general public. This law would just extend that right, which already exists almost everywhere else, into schools for licensed teachers.

Originally Posted by gismo

How many school shootings are there in Louisiana? Is it really that common as to merit this? I know people from that part of the world love their guns, but I think this might be taking things too far. I seriously doubt that it would stop school shootings.

The This happened in Mississippi in 1997, for what it's worth. Because the particular shooting was brief and the shooter tried to escape, the armed principal stopped him from escaping instead of stopping him during the shooting. The principle is basically the same, though.

Originally Posted by gismo

I need to ask...am I the only one who thinks creating a mutual climate of fear is...a slightly disturbing way to do things?

It's probably a better way of doing things than trying to prevent school shootings by putting up "GUN-FREE ZONE" signs outside schools and then hoping that would-be mass murderers will abandon their plans and go home when they see the signs. And actually, it's not about creating a mutual climate of fear; it's about giving people the ability to respond to an attacker. The hope isn't that school shooters will be dissuaded by fear of an armed teacher, it's that they will be stopped by the actions of an armed teacher. I don't think there is anything disturbing about allowing people to defend themselves and those around them. What's disturbing to me is the attitude that safety is served by creating voluntary-compliance gun restrictions (e.g., the "gun-free zones" that currently exist around schools), which any reasonable person should see will be totally ignored by criminals and will, by definition, only serve to filter out non-criminal gun owners. Current school shooting countermeasures are basically the honor system; we hope that people who are willing to commit murder won't be willing to violate a gun-free school zone ordinance.

Originally Posted by Shinysides

Well, you're welcome to your opinion of course, but as I said in my first post I really don't have an issue with armed citizens, I just don't think schools are the place for it. Also, what about this: Say for example, a teacher is carrying somewhere on his person. What happens if some kid who is just joking around decides to catch said teacher unawares and tries to playfully take it from him? Obviously not a smart move on the kids part, but now we have a potentially lethal situation, for absolutely no reason at all. And if you don't think a highschool kid would do this I beg to differ, I can think of several people off the top of my head who would have likely done such a thing when I was in high school.

I think "the place for it" is any place where people are at risk of being victimized by violent crime, which sadly includes schools no matter how much we might wish otherwise. As for students grabbing them, the schools should probably require that armed teachers carry their gun in a secure concealed holster, such as an IWB type. We're certainly not talking about open (unconcealed) carry here.

Originally Posted by Shinysides

Well, you're welcome to your opinion of course, but as I said in my first post I really don't have an issue with armed citizens, I just don't think schools are the place for it. Also, what about this: Say for example, a teacher is carrying somewhere on his person. What happens if some kid who is just joking around decides to catch said teacher unawares and tries to playfully take it from him? Obviously not a smart move on the kids part, but now we have a potentially lethal situation, for absolutely no reason at all. And if you don't think a highschool kid would do this I beg to differ, I can think of several people off the top of my head who would have likely done such a thing when I was in high school.

Im not talking about open carry where everyone can see it. Im talking about CONCEALED carry. And when you CC you dont let anyone know that you have the gun.

And as far as MORE people getting killed in a shoot out. Noone can say for sure, but IMO, the shooters will concentrate on the ones returning fire in stead of continuing their rampage.

You say you are all for people carrying guns outside of schools. What are your reasons for that?

And as far as the gun being taken by some idiot student, there are holsters that actually LOCK the gun in the holster and you have to flip a switch to be able to pull it out.