Thread: Mahmoud al-Mabhouh Assassination

I think the whole "they look Jewish" thing is a crock of shit.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/pi..._Assassins.jpg

Going from top to bottom, left to right: #1, maybe 2, 6, and 8 maybe 10 look "stereotypically Jewish"; #3, 5, 9, and 11 look generically Caucasian to me; #4 and 7 could as easily be Arabs as they could be anyone else (probably it looks that way because of the facial hair). These are the original 11 of course, I haven't seen pictures of the other 15, but I doubt that most or all of them looked "remarkably Jewish" either. I think people are grasping at straws and/or letting themselves be swayed by their a priori assumption that Mossad is responsible, so that when they then look at the faces they say to themselves "oh yeah, what a bunch of Jews they look like".

Originally Posted by Syme

I think the whole "they look Jewish" thing is a crock of shit.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/pi..._Assassins.jpg

Going from top to bottom, left to right: #1, maybe 2, 6, and 8 maybe 10 look "stereotypically Jewish"; #3, 5, 9, and 11 look generically Caucasian to me; #4 and 7 could as easily be Arabs as they could be anyone else (probably it looks that way because of the facial hair).

I disagree. I don't think any of those assassins look like Arabs, especially 4 & 7, who look very much like Ashkenazi Jews (they originated in Eastern Europe). Obviously this is rather dumb because I am saying someone looks like a Jew, when it is a religion. There is no Jewish race in my opinion (most are of European descent, which means they are not of a religious bloodline. The Jews originating in the Middle East are Arabs). Israel definitely has a lot of Arab Jews (or even Muslims) as spies, but obviously they have a lot more Caucasians (since that is what constitutes the majority of their population). On the other hand, I doubt any Arab intelligence agency has near as many Caucasian spies as they do Arab spies. This is significant because this team of approx. 25 individuals does not appear to have any Arabs. I would be surprised if an intelligence agency with a majority of Arab spies assembled a large assassination team with not one member who is clearly and visually an Arab. It's definitely something to think about. It could have no significance, or be key evidence.

So it's not that they look like Jews (this doesn't even make sense), it's that they look like Caucasians. This in my opinion incriminates the west, which Israel loves to include itself in.

Originally Posted by mrbazoun

So it's not that they look like Jews (this doesn't even make sense), it's that they look like Caucasians. This in my opinion incriminates the west, which Israel loves to include itself in.

Oh right, because if any Arab group really wanted to, they couldn't recruit 25 European-looking people to carry out their dirty work, or Mossad couldn't pick 25 of their Ashkenazi agents who looked less Ashkenazi than is typical.

Also, your accusation of this being some conspiracy of Israel and "the West" against the Arabs is baseless and sounds paranoid.

Your line of reasoning is absurd. Most likely it was either Mossad i(which circumstantial evidence is already suggesting) or it was some other group in the Middle East that had help from Hamas defectors. There's no reason at this point to think that any European or North American country had anything to do with this.

Originally Posted by Syme

I think the whole "they look Jewish" thing is a crock of shit.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/pi..._Assassins.jpg

Going from top to bottom, left to right: #1, maybe 2, 6, and 8 maybe 10 look "stereotypically Jewish"; #3, 5, 9, and 11 look generically Caucasian to me; #4 and 7 could as easily be Arabs as they could be anyone else (probably it looks that way because of the facial hair). These are the original 11 of course, I haven't seen pictures of the other 15, but I doubt that most or all of them looked "remarkably Jewish" either. I think people are grasping at straws and/or letting themselves be swayed by their a priori assumption that Mossad is responsible, so that when they then look at the faces they say to themselves "oh yeah, what a bunch of Jews they look like".

Well frankly, I don't think that you or I are qualified to assess if these individuals appear to be Israeli Jews or not, so your assessment of whether they are or are not would seem to be moot.

What I do know however is that individuals of a given racial group ARE better able to identify individuals from their own racial group, far better than individuals from other racial groups are able to. I can probably dig up some links to studies that prove this if you like.

This means that if you want to ask someone "is this person a Jewish Israeli", the best people to ask are the exact same people (i.e the Jewish Israeli public) who are seemingly already convinced that the operatives were in fact Jewish Israelis.

Right, I'm not saying that my guesstimates about the ethnic origin of the people in that photo are conclusively correct, just airing my opinion that the "they look Jewish" argument is a thin one. I'm airing this opinion in response to your statement that they "all looked remarkably Jewish". I have been to and traveled in Israel, for what that's worth.

But anyhow, the idea that "Israeli Jews" constitute a distinct "racial group" is frankly laughable. The Israeli public is strongly multi-ethnic, your suggestion that they're all from a common "racial group" and thus can reliably spot fellow members of that "racial group" is total crap. They are a mish-mash of people with ethnic origins running back to all parts of Europe along with Western Asia and the Arab world. The Israeli public's assumptions about the ethnic origins of these people, especially based on low-quality passport photos, are no more valid than your assumptions or mine. Especially since, like most everyone else, they are already making a prior assumption (reasonable as it may be) that Mossad was responsible, which will of course color their reactions to the photos.

I don't know what makes mrbazoun think that the guys in photos #4 and 7 look "very much like" Ashkenazi Jews. They could be, but they could just as easily be ethnic Arabs. They would easily blend in with the majority of people on the streets of Amman or Cairo. Which is what I said in the first place--I didn't say that they looked particularly like Arabs, what I said was that they could as easily be Arabs as they could be (non-Arab) Jews or anyone else.

EDIT: Also, new info: Some of the suspects in the assassination apparently fled from Dubai into Iran after the hit.