Atheists

**gwahir** · 12-10-2011, 09:27 PM

okay, i'm going to respond to this to see if i can drift somewhere resembling back on track.

Originally Posted by coqauvin

A good example is back in the late 1800's, early 1900's scientists believed the globe floated in a liquid they called the "luminiferous aether". Now that we've been to space, we know the universe doesn't quite work like that, but for all our accomplishments to that point, we had no better answer to give except for a wrong one. Since God is beyond our understanding, much like space in the 1800's, how do you expect to begin to prove anything?

er... we don't. as VS described, the scientific process isn't asked for when looking at the existence of something as unscientific -- or ascientific -- as god. we have no tools or methods. and if we used electromagnets or chemicals or microscopes to look for proof of god, that'd be bad science.

i mean, really bad science. like, you'd have to be a stone cold idiot.

i don't have FAITH that there is no god. i think there's no god, but i'd be willing to change my mind if any compelling evidence came up. without that evidence, why should i believe in god? i don't believe in anything until there's evidence. that's where my invisible unicorns thing from ages ago is relevant: i'll believe in invisible unicorns when there's evidence that compels me. same goes for god.

that's the first reason i don't believe in god. that's the reason, if you will, that i have no belief. now, as for the reason i believe there is no god:

i know i'm using my puny human brain for this, but i don't believe there is any way that an omnipotent, omniscient and beneficent being can exist. maybe if the world was a better place, it would make sense. but one look at uganda, or palestine, or bosnia, or a guy who lives on the street talking back to the voices in his head tells me that there is so much suffering in the world, and there can be no purpose that makes it just. you can argue that His reasons are unknowable, but i just don't buy it. (because, see above paragraph about "no evidence".) maybe he's all powerful and means well, but we're just too complex a people to manage without some of us going to shit. but then he isn't omniscient. or he knows what to do and wants to help but he just doesn't have the ability to manage such a complex system. then, no omnipotence. but the existence of a universal creator who either doesn't know everything or isn't all powerful is hard to swallow, for me, so the only remaining possibility is that he created us and doesn't give a shit about our suffering. i refuse to believe that.

the three big holy books and the religions to which they are attached make it clear that the god they describe is mean, petty, desperately needy, horrfiyingly vengeful and limitlessly cruel (an ETERNITY of punishment for a mortal crime cannot be just to any rational thinking). holy texts and religions are the only reason one really has to believe in god, and i don't think that god is possible. he'd have flooded us again by now. sure, there are other descriptions of possible gods, like your baha'i faith, and that's fine. but i still don't see how he could possibly be all powerful, all knowing and still a loving god.

it's that inconsistency -- that inability to fit with what i KNOW is decent, just, moral and good -- is why i am completely confident there is no god.

if evidence ever appears, i'll change my tune. but he'll have a god damn time of trying to convince me he's all three of those things and not just the first two.

my atheism in a nutshell.