Thread: Ban on veils

Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

While I generally question the motives, you do realize that the difference between the Christian cross and a Muslim veil is that expression of the cross doesn't preclude public identification.

That said, there are lots of other legal ways to hide one's identity (halloween masks, ski masks, sunglasses/hats, etc.) The French government is just targeting Muslims.

Frankly, they ought to ban it in public for so lacking style.

I used it for emphasis, I know it is not a perfect comparison.

But to sponge, I don't think you're being racist, but I do think you're trivializing Islam a little bit. To say that these women are forced to be Muslim and if they were more "integrate(d) into white European society" they would not want to follow the beliefs of Islam is not only naive, but also completely unable to be substantiated. There are plenty of religious people all over the world who have been exposed to people and cultures that did not believe or even tolerate their faith and generally that doesn't really stop them from believing what they want to believe and following their faith how they see fit.

What I would want to know is how many documented incidences are there of Muslim veils causing any sort of problem as it relates to the identification of the person underneath. Was there a rash of robberies by women in hijabs? Did somebody get killed in front of a group of covered Muslim women who then scattered, never to be found? Or is it what I interpret it to be: a xenophobic piece of legislation meant to target an unpopular minority in France.

Arguments in favor of it just don't hold up. The most recent estimate I can find has around 4.7 million Muslims in France as of 2010, about 7% of the French population. In 2000 a study showed that only 36% of Muslims in France were observant. Assuming statistics hold that means that saying 4% of Muslims in France are observant is being generous. Cut out half of those as men and we're talking 2% of the population. Also, if we are to use sponge's logic, they do not much associate with the people around them and generally keep to themselves. So the argument is that, in order to protect the general welfare from the ramifications of not being able to identify instantly and on sight 2% of the population, all of whom are female, who don't generally associate with the rest of the population and who come from a generally peaceful and cooperative faith, France must discriminate against their closely held religious beliefs?

I'm not buying it.