Thread: So, about college for you older guys...

You probably won't get a 3.0.
Even if you did get a 3.0 you wont get into those schools.
You will be a perfect candidate for community college. Do 2 years of cc and you might be able to transfer to one of those schools.
Thats if you get your head out of your ass and start passing those easy high school courses.

Haa stupid freakin' American education system

I got into a major state university with a 2.8 GPA. Just do good on the ACT/SAT and write an impressive admissions essay. Oh, and do extracurricular activities like sports and volunteering and stuff. I mean yeah, you're not going to Berkeley or UCSD, so get past that. But you can always go somewhere else, and if it's really important to you, try to 4.0 your classes at that school and attempt a transfer.

Edit: But if I were you I'd set my sights a little more realistically.

You definitely need to make up for the lackluster GPA. Score a 2400 on the SAT and be class president or something. If you aren't involved in anything you can forget about it.

When I give tours to incoming students we tell them the four points our school takes into consideration:
1.GPA
2.SAT
3.Extra Curriculars
4.Classes taken

In that order. And, in all honesty, every school essentially has the same criterion.

Oh right, you also need to have an awesome entrance essay (a requirement for all UC's but not on the CSU's)

Do you know what you want to do? Like major-wise? That can certainly have an impact on the choice of schools.

I don't usually like talking about this (since it purely subjective) but I'll tell you what I had since I applied under the CSU and UC systems.

I had a 4.3, took mostly AP classes, was involved in the theater department and organized donation drives for homeless kids. I wasn't super involved like ASB but I was involved enough. I got into UCSD, UCSB, but not Berk Why? Similar students to me did, but it's a matter of what you're applying for, what department, if it's impacted, how tired the admissions counselor was when they read your application essay, etc. I am sure if I applied under Engineering instead of History at Berkley I would have gotten in, why? Because most liberal arts students at Berkley end up trying to get into the Law program, so it's more impacted. It's also fucking Berkley and they are a bunch of hippies.

My honest guess? You probably don't have a chance at Berk. UCSD maybe. That's a strong maybe. But remember there are other UC system schools. None of which I recommend beyond SB, SD, LA, and Berk, but there are plenty. You could also try CSU schools.

Higher education is easier to get into than you think, but you just need to understand your chances. If you're driven, you can always transfer from a community college.

TOGS basically summed it up. You can probably forget about Berkeley but that doesn't mean you will be at McDonalds your whole life, there are plenty of decent schools you should be able to get into with a 3.0 (or even a high 2.something) high school GPA. Kicking ass on your SAT will definitely help, too. If you are really dead-set on Berkeley, you could always try to transfer there after a year or two at wherever else you wind up going. Getting in as a transfer student is often easier than getting in as a freshman. Also, listen to what TOGS says about different programs/departments at the same schools being more or less selective. You can use that to your advantage. You can easily switch majors after your first year (most of the classes you take as a freshman will be GE crap that are required regardless of major), so if applying directly into your intended major program would decrease your chances of getting in, consider applying into a major program that's less selective and then switching. Be aware of differing acceptance rates for different programs/departments and game the system accordingly.

I graduated high school with like a 2.2 GPA, a 1540 SAT (this was back in the olden days when the max SAT score was 1600), and plenty of AP classes with 5's on the AP tests. I didn't get into any of the schools I applied to, probably because they could see by the juxtaposition of my high test scores and low GPA that I was too lazy to put my smarts to good use. I wound up doing two years in my local community college, got serious about motivating myself, and was able to transfer to a school I liked. So just bear in mind that even if you don't get in anywhere, your academic career isn't ruined, it's just been sidetracked a bit and can be put back on course with a little effort; you could still have your degree in four years' time from a good school, you might just spend two of those years at community college and then the other two at 'real' college. Don't buy into the idea that community college is some dead-end for hopeless fuckups, it's really not. With good grades in CC, you should be able to transfer even into highly selective schools.

If you can get your GPA up to above 3.0 and do well enough on your ACT and/or SAT then you can get into most UofC schools. If you can do that, of the various UofC locations you could get into, San Diego is the best for both pharm and engineering from the 3 minutes of research I just did on it, but I'm no expert.

Also, what Atmosfear is saying about connections isn't wrong, but you've got to work with what you've got.

Originally Posted by Shinysides

Besides, there are many other great options for a pharmaceutical degree. People put too much emphasis on where their degree is from and not enough on their actual skill sets.

True. Also take into consideration cost. CSU vs. UC. and your plans on undergrad vs. grad schools.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Tremendously appreciated :]. So, with all that's been said, are there any schools in CA you guys would recommend for the career I want? A few that I would have a chance of being accepted into right off the bat?

I go to Cal Poly. I'm a little biased when I say this, but we are ranked for the 15th year in a row, Cal Poly has been rated the best public-master's university in the West by U.S. News & World Report and our College of Engineering which I am a part of is ranked as the first in the nation within the same criteria.

Originally Posted by Atmosfear

The degree might not be worth much more, but the connections you get from school sure as shit are.

Only if you have the personality and skill set.

Originally Posted by Mr. E

If you can get your GPA up to above 3.0 and do well enough on your ACT and/or SAT then you can get into most UofC schools. If you can do that, of the various UofC locations you could get into, San Diego is the best for both pharm and engineering from the 3 minutes of research I just did on it, but I'm no expert.

I would say this is mostly correct. I honestly would not count on UCSD or UCB, but if I were a betting man I would say you have good chances at places like Riverside, maybe Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, San Fran (I would recommend maybe SF for your medical stuff)

And don't forget there are some (see also: 2) shining lights in the CSU system... Cal Poly and SDSU.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Thanks for the replies everyone.

TOGS, if people took into account these other (minor) details, would you say my chances are improved at all?

GPA - 3.04 at the maximum, if I take all AP courses next year
SAT - I'm fairly certain I can do very well on this and the ACT. The reason I'm doing so poorly is because for the life of me, I just can't do homework or projects. Or won't rather. This will change
Extracurricular - Track, tennis, various clubs and at least 100 hours over the required community service hours.
Classes taken - I plan on doing a few AP courses next year (psychology, US history, RP program, Health Essentials)

Would it be possible to transfer from a state school like SDSU to Berk after only 1 year?

Like I said bud, all subjective. You also have to worry about that essay (not that it's hard). They read thousands of applications like yours so you need to find what would stand out and place you as someone they want to have at their university.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

The reason I aim for Berkeley is because it's a good place to start a career in pharmaceutics. Engineering is my second choice.

Look CFP, let me be blunt, since you may not have gotten the message yet, and if you want to do well from this point forward you need a realistic perspective on your situation, and your attitude is one of over-weening hubris:

Of course Berkley is a good school to start a career in many, many fields. On the other hand, being a professional basketball player is a good way to make money, as is being a movie star.


With near certainty, you will NOT get into Berkley, and if you really wanted to attend Berkley you should have started 3 years ago when you were a freshman in High School with good grades. I mean, if you really want to go to Berkley, then by all means make a serious effort, but don't set your heart on it. Also, make sure you look for and apply to strong alternate schools so that you don't screw yourself over in the end by not being realistic.

Over the last decade, admissions to every university have become more and more competitive, and at this point students that are by far stronger than you are the norm for even less regarded state schools like UMCP. Things are even worse at the top tier schools such as Berkley: their admissions are so swamped with exceptional students that they are looking for any reason to cull students from the selection process, and you give them such reasons in spades.

One last thing: do you think that people with pharmaceutical or engineering degrees from SDSU don't ever get careers? Of course they do.

Would it be possible to transfer from a state school like SDSU to Berk after only 1 year?

I have no idea, but again I wouldn't count on it.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

. The reason I'm doing so poorly is because for the life of me, I just can't do homework or projects. Or won't rather. This will change

What are you doing to ensure that it will change? Are you getting outside help to help you improve you study skills? Are you reading books about how to improve your habits? etc.

This is another reason why I find your idea of getting into Berkley so shocking. You have fundamental problems with simply doing the work assigned to you in classes and are failing classes because of that. How can you not understand that Berkley is not the school for people like this? And what's more you will be miserable surrounded by super over-achievers. I mean, I probably would be as well. It's bad enough in podunk little UMCP.

For the record, SDSU is not a bad school. In fact they are highly highly regarded as having an amazing nursing program. I also lived 2 miles from the campus for much of my life. But they do party.... a lot.

Throw stress-relieving sex into the game and you're solid.

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious!

You need to take more steps than that!

Thank you, Captain Obvious (I went there!)

You should have also added that there is no way you're going to get into Berkley.

Seriously, though: you need some sort of counselling to get yourself on track.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Also, I never meant to make it seem like I was trashing SDSU or community colleges. It wasn't my intention at all. It's just the SDSU campus is way too close to home for me, which is a bummer since I always wanted college to be my escape but then again, I really don't have many options since I fucked up last year and barely scraped by this year.

Fine, then there are plenty of other colleges that aren't Berkley which are away from your house, but because you didn't give a fuck until now, you're probably going to have to go into community college for the first couple years.

I mean, I went into physics, and even though MIT is a great school for physics, I knew coming out of high school I would never get into MIT. I was a far stronger student than you.

You need to be reasonable about the position that you put yourself in. Find other schools that have decent pharmacy programs but that you could reasonably transfer to out of community college.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Also, I never meant to make it seem like I was trashing SDSU or community colleges. It wasn't my intention at all. It's just the SDSU campus is way too close to home for me, which is a bummer since I always wanted college to be my escape but then again, I really don't have many options since I fucked up last year and barely scraped by this year.

Where in San Diego do you live?

You seriously need to say that you're the Prince of Wales to get into Cal.

Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

Where in San Diego do you live?

You seriously need to say that you're the Prince of Wales to get into Cal.

better start practicing on your english accent.

Originally Posted by Syme

I don't know about this, if he can turn that GPA around in his senior year, there are probably plenty of schools that will take him as a freshman, especially if his SATs are pretty good.

I'll take your word for it, as I would have thought that most decent schools would not take someone with a GPA less than 3.0, and I doubt he'll be able to raise it to above a 3.0 in one year.

On the other hand, if he can show definite improvement from his freshman year to his senior year, and discuss it in his essays, it's possible he can get into a good school.

Sorry, I don't get the prince of wales thing, but I guess CalPoly accepts more people from out of CA? I didn't factor in my senior year for my GPA, but if I ace all of my classes next year, it should be a 3.0 guaranteed. But isn't it true that senior year isn't really considered when applying to colleges? And yeah, there are other steps and measure I'm going through like preparing for the SAT to make sure I get a perfect score and I'm looking about taking online classes for some courses my school doesn't offer retakes for. I'll have to make sure the colleges I apply to consider those valid though. And as for area; I live in the Oak Park neighborhood, idk if you know where that is, but it's a few minutes from City Heights. That's best I can describe it.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

But isn't it true that senior year isn't really considered when applying to colleges?

Unfortunately, usually only the first semester is completed by the time applications are submitted.

And yeah, there are other steps and measure I'm going through like preparing for the SAT to make sure I get a perfect score and I'm looking about taking online classes for some courses my school doesn't offer retakes for. I'll have to make sure the colleges I apply to consider those valid though.

Okay, first of all, you're not going to get a perfect score on your SAT, but it's good that you're working to improve your score.

Secondly, those online classes will probably count only if your school puts them on your transcript, but that doesn't sound like it's the case.

Have you talked to your school's counselor about your situation or anyone else that works at getting high school students into college?

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Sorry, I don't get the prince of wales thing, but I guess CalPoly accepts more people from out of CA? I didn't factor in my senior year for my GPA, but if I ace all of my classes next year, it should be a 3.0 guaranteed. I'll have to make sure the colleges I apply to consider those valid though. And as for area; I live in the Oak Park neighborhood, idk if you know where that is, but it's a few minutes from City Heights. That's best I can describe it.

Just because it doesn't factor in for the application, a transcript still needs to be sent at the end of your school year.

Cal Poly is the hardest of the CSU's to get into.

For courses that apply for different schools visit:
http://www.assist.org/web-assist/welcome.html

I lived in La Mesa, by the way.

Originally Posted by sycld

I'll take your word for it, as I would have thought that most decent schools would not take someone with a GPA less than 3.0, and I doubt he'll be able to raise it to above a 3.0 in one year.

On the other hand, if he can show definite improvement from his freshman year to his senior year, and discuss it in his essays, it's possible he can get into a good school.

Ahh, from the OP, I thought he was saying he would have a cumulative HS GPA of 2.83 at the end of junior year, now I see that he meant 2.83 for his junior year only and ~2.0 cumulative HS after this year. Well, CFP, that will make it a bit harder than I initially thought, but you should still have a fighting chance at getting into a decent school if you can show a good SAT score and good senior year grades. Good senior grades can let you "punch above your weight" in terms of HS GPA when applying, as has been discussed, so that's definitely the main thing you need to strive for, more so than SATs or anything else. And yeah, a good essay talking about how/why you've learned to motivate yourself and do better than you did early in HS will help too.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

The school itself has a period in the morning where you can take those online classes, so I'm hoping the colleges will validate them as A-G and course credit.

Have you actually talked to your school to see if they will count these credits? I can't imagine your school not counting these credits but then the college you're applying to counting them.

Dude, it's obvious your perspective on things is unrealistic, from both claiming you will score a perfect score on your SAT to actually thinking that Berkley is a viable option for you. You also seem to lack knowledge of how college admissions work.

You need to get on your school's counselor's ass and hound him for answers, and you need to talk to people at both your local community college and the admissions people from SCHOOLS YOU HAVE A REASONABLE CHANCE OF ENTERING (not Berkley or Cal Poly or the like; you are not going to get into them at this point, period). Your situation is difficult at this point, and you need to contact these people to find out how to straighten it out. As Atmosfear said, you're not going to get your answers from this Internet forum.

I didn't mean I'm positive I'll get a perfect score, I know that's unrealistic. I wouldn't call myself realistic or unrealistic at this point, I'm just determined to go straight to a Higher learning institute instead of delaying myself or having to to enter community college.

I just wanna clear some stuff up in case some people were confused, I kinda worded my OP awkwardly. I'm a sophomore as we speak. I'll become a junior in september. right now, my cumulative gpa is probably 2.5 or somewhere there.

EDIT: Just for clarification, my gpa for all freshmen-junior years is the cumulative at that point (the end of each year) divided by three right?
ex:
2.0 plus 2.83 plus hypothetical 4.25 divided by three should give me my overall? sorry, im rusty at this point

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

I just wanna clear some stuff up in case some people were confused, I kinda worded my OP awkwardly. I'm a sophomore as we speak. I'll become a junior in september. right now, my cumulative gpa is probably 2.5 or somewhere there.

oh woops. i thought you were a junior entering your senior year.

the good news is that you at least have time to show an improvement of your junior and senior GPAs, which may help admissions departments look over your weak sophomore and freshman level performance.

you still will not get into berkley, however.

Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

EDIT: Just for clarification, my gpa for all freshmen-junior years is the cumulative at that point (the end of each year) divided by three right?
ex:
2.0 plus 2.83 plus hypothetical 4.25 divided by three should give me my overall? sorry, im rusty at this point

Yes, that's correct. So if you really kick ass in your junior year and manage to get that 4.25, your cumulative HS GPA for 9th-11th grade will be a (2 + 2.83 + 4.25) / 3 = 3.02, not great but not bad either. Bear in mind that the first half of your senior year may also be factored into the GPA that college admissions officers see, depending on when you apply.

Bottom line, if you can turn your shit around next year and senior year, you should be able to fulfill your goal of getting directly into a four-year school without going to community college. As sycld says, not Berkeley, but some four-year school.

Earlier, you were talking about how your best friend said she isn't going to let you screw up this coming year. I can tell you right now that will not be enough. If you rely on other people to keep you motivated by prodding you along, it simply will not work. The motivation has to come from you. I guess it's nice to have encouragement from your friends, but ultimately that's not what will determine your success. You have to be able to realize that the immediate pleasures of slacking off aren't worth the future consequences of it, and you have to be able to realize that strongly enough to make yourself sit down every night and study when you'd rather be doing your own thing. It's just a question of maturity/responsibility; if you don't have enough of it, then no amount of encouragement and prodding from your friends will make you get good grades. It'll be like they were telling a rock to fly. I know because I was in the exact same boat in high school, I didn't have the maturity to make myself buckle down no matter how much my friends pushed me. I hope you do.

About the stupid American education system...

The fact is that until you get a Masters degree or above in America, you're basically always behind most of the rest of the world when comparing equivalent degrees. For example, in most of Europe, to get the equivalent of a bachelor's degree, you have to actually write a thesis on original research and defend it. Essentially, the "basic" European university degree is a Masters-equivalent in the US. I know this is the case in many other countries as well. And of course, most high schools in Europe (pre-university high schools at least) are more rigorous than most high schools in the US, except for magnate high schools and the like.

That's the reason why European PhD programs are like no more than 4 years, whereas the time it takes to get a US PhD from a US bachelor's degree is more like 5 to 7 years, and sometimes more.

The third year British university syllabus is an entirely personal dissertation

I know of a guy who wrote his whole 3rd year piece on how the electric guitar can be described as an historical artefact

A good essay as well as high SAT scores will definitely help your case. So will any past job and extracurricular experience, especially if it's diverse.