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  1. #1
    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    I thought that was already confirmed.

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    the eagle
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    There was a degree of ambiguity to it - first, Tom talked about it, then Ben, 2 people who can't be trusted.

    Then, Naomi had Miles talk to the dead guy - but it never mentioned that Widmore was behind the plan wreckage, only that the dead guy had information about it and was killed (implying that either Widmore killed him for knowing too much, or someone else killed him to get the information). And the special outright said that Widmore was behind it.

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    =========== KT.'s Avatar
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    Well I thought it was very obvious that Widmore dumped the dummy plane

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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KT. View Post
    Well I thought it was very obvious that Widmore dumped the dummy plane
    Yeah, I guess it was just one of those implied things that you and I took as confirmed. Good to be sure, though.

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    boxman Mang's Avatar
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    so do you guys reckon Dan is dead or is Richard/Jacob/the Island gonna crack out some mad healing skills
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    I acutally more or less agree with you on this. I'm much more of an athlete then an intellectual.

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    I killed Tupac Shinysides's Avatar
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    Woot, I am done with Season One.

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    the eagle
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    No, he's pretty dead.

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    =========== KT.'s Avatar
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    Daniel is dead. Whatever happened, happened. No one sets off the hydrogen bomb.

  9. #9
    the eagle
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    Or if they do, it's what causes The Incident.

    My guess is that uh, Chang evacuates some of the island, stops work on The Swan, but Jack and Co get the bomb and drop it into the electromagnet and that sets off The First Incident.

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    the eagle
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    I mean you don't introduce a gun in a play without it going off - that's sloppy writing - and I doubt they would introduce an H bomb without it detonating.

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    Band simonj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalReynolds View Post
    I mean you don't introduce a gun in a play without it going off - that's sloppy writing - and I doubt they would introduce an H bomb without it detonating.
    No, you don't introduce a gun in a play without it going off unless the fact that it doesn't go off is integral to the play. Jesus Christ, Chekhov should be shot for that half-arsed metaphor.

    If Jeremy Davies doesn't win some sort of acting award for that episode then there is just no justice.

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    =========== KT.'s Avatar
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    well I hope you're right

    yeah they have been making a point to remind people about the H bomb

  13. #13
    the eagle
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    I also think the missing reels from the tapes they fiound in the 'present' for the Dharma orientation might be frames that have them in it.

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    the eagle
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    Right yes let's introduce something big that we expect to pay off later and then never come back to it.

    What, was the H-bomb called "Libby" or something?

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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalReynolds View Post
    What, was the H-bomb called "Libby" or something?
    heheh

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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone will set off the bomb. I can't see an H bomb going off on Lost, firstly, and it doesn't seem like the Island had ever taken that much damage.

    I don't think it's weak writing to introduce a plot point like this and have us keep coming back to it until one last time where people desperately try, and fail, to set it off.

    Also, goddamn. Daniel shouldn't be dead.






    edit: also, everyone DID see ellie shooting dan coming, right

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    edit: also, everyone DID see ellie shooting dan coming, right
    Yes, everyone. Didn't really take anything away from the episode though.

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    Merry fucking Christmas Atmosfear's Avatar
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    We saw her shooting him just like we saw Widmore was his father.

  19. #19
    the eagle
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    In S1, shit like that would have tripped me up real bad.

    But now, they introduce a new character, you try and figure out just how they fit into the grand scheme. Which I like. And some twists still catch me off guard.

    The first time Charlie died, my sister cried so much. The second time, when he got knifed in the jungle in one of Desmond's flashes, she cried even harder. By the time he died for good, she quit the show.

    Quite like Alan Dale

    "At that point I felt like I had watched them wandering in a line through the forests a bit sweaty for the 1000th time. I thought 'I can't watch this anymore'. Then out of the bushes came a black cloud, which grabbed a black man and threw him to the ground, and I thought 'I definitely can't watch this anymore'."

  20. #20
    Merry fucking Christmas Atmosfear's Avatar
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    Goes back to mp's quote:

    "At the point they introduce time travel, you know the show has jumped the shark."

  21. #21
    the eagle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atmosfear View Post
    Goes back to mp's quote:

    "At the point they introduce time travel, you know the show has jumped the shark."
    Jumping the shark = consensus after the show has finished that after a certain point, the quality of the series has declined.

    Not, "The show is now about something other than what it started out as."

    Most fans still love the show, the story, the pacing, the writing, the twists, the acting.

    Just because the show introduces a new element that you find convuluted does not mean it has jumped the shark.

    EDIT: Also, how would she know they were 'relatively civilized'? Because they showed up with guns and stole her baby? They did the same thing with Walt at the end of S1.
    Last edited by MalReynolds; 05-04-2009 at 01:11 PM.

  22. #22
    Merry fucking Christmas Atmosfear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalReynolds View Post
    EDIT: Also, how would she know they were 'relatively civilized'? Because they showed up with guns and stole her baby? They did the same thing with Walt at the end of S1.
    Ben was wearing cleanly pressed and laundered clothing, was clean-cut and shaved, and relatively calm and collected. All things considered, he looked human. Throughout the show, the Others always looked more human than Reneau, except when they were first alluded to, for no good reason. You forget that we've now seen the scene where Ben takes her baby; he looked like a yuppie in hiking boots.

    Compare that to the "We're gonna have to take your boy" scene. Did he grow a ratty, gnarled beard and half-ruined clothes just to fuck with the Lost? Or was it that the writers decided to change their positioning mid-series and just ignored it?

  23. #23
    Merry fucking Christmas Atmosfear's Avatar
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    And there's still unanswered simple questions like why did the Others walk barefoot through the jungle when the French chick already knew they were relatively civilized? And why wouldn't she just tell Sayid and the rest of them?

    There's no good reason for it, except the bullshit explained away after you're broken suspension of disbelief.

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    Band simonj's Avatar
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    Them walking barefoot through the jungle was nothing to do with them being civilised/uncivilised. It was about stealth and leaving less of a followable trail.

  25. #25
    Merry fucking Christmas Atmosfear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonj View Post
    Them walking barefoot through the jungle was nothing to do with them being civilised/uncivilised. It was about stealth and leaving less of a followable trail.
    They were deliberately painted in the initial exposure to be almost uncivilized, animalistic, and almost subhuman. The only glimpses we had of them were barefoot, dirty, and savage. The only reason this changed was because the camera angle of them changed, not the knowledge of the Lost. It doesn't fit.

  26. #26
    Journeyman Cocksmith Mr. E's Avatar
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    Deciding a show has jumped the shark is a personal decision, not a science Mal.

    I agree with mp.

  27. #27
    the eagle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. E View Post
    Deciding a show has jumped the shark is a personal decision, not a science Mal.

    I agree with mp.
    Huh? I was under the impression that 'jumping the shark' was a consensus, while 'dislike a show due to personal reasons unrelated to quality' was a personal choice.

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    Band simonj's Avatar
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    Well New Scientist magazine said their time travel stuff is relatively solid and in line with what science knows so far.

    Either way, if all you're going to do is watch the show and then spiel itt about how said show is not worth watching then what's the point in using this thread in the first place?

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    Technically, Mal is right about the term Jumping The Shark.

    However, Mr. E's term is correct in common parlance. Or at least acceptable, anyhow.

  30. #30
    Journeyman Cocksmith Mr. E's Avatar
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    I was under the assumption that it seemed like consensus generally because it is obvious, but that consensus was not a mandatory requirement, as I've heard of shows having multiple points of jumping the shark. There used to be a website where you could go and vote on where you thought particular shows jumped the shark, but I don't think it exists anymore, or it got bought by TV guide and made shitty or something.

  31. #31
    the eagle
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    Anecdote time!

    I work in a doctor's office, and on the tapes I transcribe, one doctor says "Crepitance" on the tape. So far that he will spell it out. "C-R-E-P-I-T-A-N-C-E".

    However, it is techincally not the right phrasing, as Crepitance is not a word. The word he is looking for is "Crepitus" or "Crepitation".

    But common parlance says that the doctor is techincally correct. Even though he is using a word that is not real.

    In any case, I always sub in 'Crepitus', which I feel drives him crazy, as he always will sternly spell out 'Crepitance'.

    Moral of this story? Little technicalities bother me sometimes.

    EDIT: It did get bought by TV Guide. And while you could vote on specific moments that you felt the show jumped, only the highest voted was considered the moment that the show truly 'jumped the shark'.

  32. #32
    Merry fucking Christmas Atmosfear's Avatar
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    And Mal, the term "Jumped the Shark" has nothing to do with retrospective. The show can very well be in-progress and have jumped the shark. It doesn't have to be finished, which is the only thing preventing Lost from qualifying.

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    the eagle
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    Uh, no. Sun found costumes when they were injecting her with whatever to ensure her baby didn't die in the womb, implying that The Other's dressed up as a form of psychological warfare.

    EDIT: And I do not find the show has a stark decline in quality, therefore, the show has not jumped the shark, nor has it for millions of viewers.

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    Merry fucking Christmas Atmosfear's Avatar
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    Why wouldn't Reneau have clarified that oh wait

  35. #35
    the eagle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atmosfear View Post
    Why wouldn't Reneau have clarified that oh wait
    Uh... because she's crazy and has been established as nuts from the day they met her?

    It seems that you just have poor recall of the earlier seasons, to be honest.
    Last edited by MalReynolds; 05-04-2009 at 02:28 PM.

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    The guy who said "we're gonna have to take your boy" was wearing a false beard. That was revealed to us quite clearly.

    Yes, they showed us the Others in a specific way because they wanted us (and the survivors) to make specific assumptions about them. Just because they then showed you how incorrect those assumptions were does not make it a shitty narrative device.

  37. #37
    Merry fucking Christmas Atmosfear's Avatar
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    Well, touche about the beard. It didn't turn out a useless ruse, but there was an obvious out that should've been explained, "Hey, they don't usually walk around barefoot and dirty!"

    No reason Reneau had survived for 16 years without knowing that, and at least mentioning it at some point before Ben shows up.

  38. #38
    Scito Te Ipsum TheOriginalGrumpySpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atmosfear View Post
    Reneau
    HER NAME IS ROUSSEAU YOU FUCK STICK.

    "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." -Anne Frank


    “We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.” -Buddha

    Identity


  39. #39
    Merry fucking Christmas Atmosfear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy View Post
    HER NAME IS ROUSSEAU YOU FUCK STICK.
    I like my name better

  40. #40
    the eagle
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    She actually doesn't mention any other people on the island, after meeting everyone. I assume she would do this so she could steal Claire's baby and deliver it to the Other's, which she attempted at the end of S1, but they took Walt instead.

    I don't think she really turned into their friend until S2/S3.

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