I'm sorry but every time I hear or see Man in Black, I automatically think about the movie Men In Black and then I think about Will Smith and how awesome it would be if Will Smith starred in LOST.
I'm sorry but every time I hear or see Man in Black, I automatically think about the movie Men In Black and then I think about Will Smith and how awesome it would be if Will Smith starred in LOST.
I like Will Smith but he wouldn't fit into Lost at all..Originally Posted by KT.
What a great episode. If anyone hasn't watched yet go watch it now. I thought being all about Richard was a waste of a episode but it wasn't at all.
Im still not convinced fake locke is evil though. My mini theoryStill dont know what the boy in the woods that fake locke was chasing was about. But Sawyer saw him too and Richard couldn't so it has something to do with sawyer being a candidate.theory
This shit's gettin good.
i think evilocke is evil and jacob is good. i don't think we're being played this time. it's in the symbolism. reversing it at this point would be making the audience feel needlessly stupid, which i don't think the writers are going to do -- there are still questions, and we're still being made to doubt, but ultimately i think that's how it's going to turn out.
anyway, i was a little let down by the episode. too much wasted time. there should have been less of richardo's pre-island life and more of his post-job with jacob life. it also didn't feel like an episode of lost for most of it -- but, i am inclined to welcome any interesting changes in any long-running show's dynamic, so i don't necessarily have a problem with that.
any speculation on what's in the locked chamber of widmore's sub?
I suspect it is whatever MiB needs to get off the island.
EDIT: I suppose that I should clarify by saying I think there is something other than a means to get off the island that MiB needs to get off the island.
DOUBLE EDIT: Or maybe Widmore is a secret good guy and it is something to kill the MiB.
Last edited by Mr. E; 03-24-2010 at 10:12 PM.
I agree. The Man in Black doesn't seem to be that bad of a guy. He seems likable, straight-forward, and honest. But this is often how the devil is portrayed, a being who tricks others into following him by appearing to be sincere. I'm not saying the Man in Black is supposed to be the devil, but I do think he represents evil and likewise, Jacob represents good.
Well this episode was more about giving Richard some much needed character depth rather than explaining island mysteries. I thought the episode felt very much like something from season 1 of Lost.
S&M dungeon
I have never been more convinced of Jacob's being good than when he laid the smackdown on Richard.
Yes, that's true, but the distance from regular Lost episodes was pretty stark. I mean Lost never went back in time two hundred years. Again, I don't necessarily have a problem with it, but it was odd. Also, like I said, I understand that it's about him and his character's origins and depths. But there needed to be more Island stuff in there. Richard is tied very much into the wellbeing of the Island, and we should have found out more about why. I thought it was fairly cheap, the amount we got about him. There was a lot of wasteful storytelling. Last episode, he wanted to kill himself because Jacob was dead and therefore his life was meaningless. This episode, we find out that his ENTIRE CHARACTER ARC is all about his dead wife. I'm annoyed. I'm just saying that we KNOW that the Island features strongly in Richard's motivations and his emotional buildup, and none of that got any service in that episode.
i watched a short video released by abc called "lost secret clues" and one of them was this chamber. it showed sawyer getting ambushed by widmore's men, him passing the pylon being erected, him getting into the sub, asking what's in the locked room, being told "none of your business", and then, with an air of an important clue, it cut to widmore telling sawyer "it's sad, really, how little you know".
i'm betting on this basis that it's something we don't even know about yet.
also: i wonder if they'll address the magic box this season. i mean, they gotta. how has nobody followed up on that?! EDIT: i guess ben and locke were the only people to discuss it, and ben already knows what it is and locke's dead. so i guess there's not much need to discuss it.
Well I mean, Lost never had a flashback episode before of a character who was 200 years old, so...
Anyway, his entire character arc isn't just about his dead wife. The episode juxtaposes Ricardo (confused and scared) with Richard ([up until this episode] assured and confident). Yeah, knowing more about how Richard played liaison between Jacob and the people Jacob brought to the island would have been interesting, but I have a feeling that the details are just not that important.
Perhaps my theories are not radical enough to be paid attention to.
Radical theory: MiB is Adam, Jacob was a vessel of God, and in Widmore's sub is eve. MiB and Eve will then come into contact and "get off the island" by unifying all of the individual consciousnesses throughout the world into a pooled unified state, their bodies fading away as they ascend to pure oneness.
The man who is chosen to replace Jacob will become the leader of this pooled consciousness and to choose whether he would prefer everyone to regain their individuality or remain together as one.
Though to be fair that story may have been done in something else before.
yeech.
but i agree that mib needs more than just a means of getting off the island to get off the island. i mean there was the others' boat. the helicopter. he could have built a raft. etc. it seems unlikely that all he needs is a boat. MAYBE you could say that it was just jacob's death that he needed, but eh, seems jacob had to be a little more proactive than just "being alive" to stop mib from getting away.
also, jack-jacob. name similarity. i'm still going with him as the most likely candidate.
Well, actually, the episode juxtaposed Ricardo (confused and scared) with Richard (confused and scared). Seeing assured and confident pre-plane-crash Richard would have been relevant and more important than a lot of the stuff we saw. The killed a doctor/lost his wife/sold as slave/crashed on island story could have taken two thirds or half the time it did.
I thought the 'magic box' was a metaphor for 'we can get what you need here because we're fuckin' cool like that' and that is why it was not explained. Ben already had info and intel on most of the Oceanic passengers via Ethan's infiltration of the beach camp, and they've already gone out of their way to bring people to the Island (like Juliet) so it's not hard to believe that they sent someone out to collect Cooper and bring him back for Locke's test.
i suppose that's true, but i don't love the execution of that storyline in that case
I'm getting pretty scared that Lost's big culmination is merely a religious allegory. And a poor one at that. I'm hoping it's not but it is starting to look that way. This episode didn't have nearly enough awesome compared to the banal, even though I basically disagree with Gwahir over why.
I've always thought it was pretty clear that Lost was a religious allegory. I mean, big good protecting the world from big bad who wants to drag the world to (and I quote) "hell". That covers the story of half the major religions.
I have no clue what the payoff is going to end up being though, and it could go in a completely different direction. If Jacob comes back from the dead we may be in trouble though.
explain why you didn't love it
i also don't think it'll be religious allegory at all. i think there'll be elements of that from certain characters' points of view (for instance, many of them think it's hell -- i just think they're wrong, and they're allowed to be), but i think it will be utterly and completely NOT religious allegory overall.
nb: that won't stop certain wingnuts (probably mostly religious) from interpreting it thataway
Haha, I'm far from religious, that's just the way it always seemed to me. It could just as easily be an allegory for the state of the world today. You can't deny significant potential religious references just because you don't like them.
All I know for sure is that it is an allegory for something. We won't really know what probably forever, but speculating is useless until the story ends.
i don't think it's very useful to see it as an allegory, particularly.
the thing about allegory, as well, is that all it takes for something to be an allegory is a few people taking it that way. so i don't think it's fair to accuse it of or label it as AN ALLEGORY (unless it's really really explicit, which lost is not), especially something as trite as religious allegory, just because it "can be read that way". it doesn't read to me like an allegory at all, despite what some characters believe. it reads like a pretty straight story with a lot of mythology and backstory but no real allegory -- jacob and the mib aren't standins for anything or anyone, they're LOST's characters, one of which represents a deep humanity-obsessed evil and the other a choice-favouring good.
i suppose that there's something to be said for the mib thinking that humans are inherently corruptible and jacob wanting to "stay out of things" and that paradigm being very biblical. but i'd criticise that as being a rehash of old ideas before i accused it of being purposefully allegorical.
also, mr e, i hadn't seen your post when i replied. i certainly wasn't calling you "religious". but my point was that it's likely to be interpreted that way by people who want to find that stuff in it -- like when people (adam baldwin cough cough) consider "firefly" and "serenity" to be supportive of grand old conservative views.
Hehe, I see what you're saying. People will read into it what they will. No one except JJ knows for sure. It could just be a straight story or it could be about some dogs he saw playing in a yard one day (exaggeration, but you know what I mean). It's just an inkling I have that leads me to believe that it stands for something.
yeah i know what you mean. ultimately, i don't actually think writers' motivation MEANS anything (death of the author ho ho yessir) and it's all about how the work can be read -- but i do think that some ways of reading are better than others.
i think however in the case of lost it would be judicious to hold off on judgments of something like allegory till the end. i know you were just speculating and everything, so i'm not addressing this at you in particular. just makin' a point.
I am going to take a wild guess and say Desmond!
LOL
Anyone else laugh when Sun ran into a tree?
Claiming sun can't speak english anymore because she ran into a tree was pretty weak. And speaking of sun and her husband I could care less for either one of them so im sick of them always dedicating a quarter+ of an episode to talk about them!!! There's much more interesting people i'd like to know about.
And the episode before about Richard's past was a GREAT episode. best i've seen in awhile. I still think it's to simple for Jacob to be the good guy and fakelocke the bad guy. Got to be more to it.
Btw I knew it was going to be Desmond in the sub. I hope Sieve can be cured he was always one of my favs.
Good god todays episode was boring...
what the fuck? did you call sayid "sieve"?
also, i believe that trauma-induced aphasia is a real thing. if you can forget how to speak from a knock on the head, forgetting how to speak a (comparatively) recently-learnt second language seems fairly plausible. even if it's not 100% medically substantiated, it's substantiated enough by factual medical happenings to be allowed in a sci-fi tv show.
edit: apparently everyone thought it'd be des in there. why? i thought it was a fair enough guess, but, meh.
I was expecting Suns daughter :|
deja vu
I thought the use of aphasia in the main timeline was an interesting story device because it seems like Sun does not know English at all in the flash-sideways.
it does seem like that, yes
It's also entirely possible that she's hiding her knowledge of Engrish because she's always been around Jin and wouldn't necessarily want Mikhail to know she can speak English either. Although her relationship with Jin seems to have a different backstory in this timeline so I'm not sure.
Lucky coincidence that Keamy happened to know Mikhail who happens to be able to speak fluent Korean. I'm getting pretty sick of them forcing every minor character into alternate timeline roles. It's starting to feel gimmicky.
well the creators said early on that the confluences in the lostaways' pre-crash lives are not coincidence but part of the fabric of the show's mythology, so i accept it on that basis
is confluence the word i want?
anyway i do see what you mean about it seeming a little silly.
edit: having said that i did lol when jin shot out his eye
I facepalmed.
English wasn't a recently-learned second language for Sun, Gwahir. She came to the island speaking English. Jin learned it.
My issue with the aphasia wasn't the medical basis... it was the shitty parallel to Sun apparently not knowing English any longer in the flash-sideways.
My roommate and I both said the same thing at the end of the episode... 6 episodes left in the season and nothing has happened other than to kill off a bunch of shitty new characters that were introduced this season. Yeah, I've got real high hopes.
i said "(comparitively)". ie. compared to when she learnt to speak korean. she learnt english in the few years before she came to the island.
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