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Thread: LOST [Spoilers]

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    Maybe the only way Smokey can leave the island is if there is no one there to protect it. That's why he's trying to get the candidates to kill each other.

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    Also, in the beginning of the episode, are the two women speaking Latin?

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    yes

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    Anyone have a year estimate of the start?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teelo View Post
    Anyone have a year estimate of the start?
    *taken from lostpedia*

    they're speaking latin and latin wasn't spoken socially that much beyond 900 AD, so it's presumeably around then or before then


    *I have no idea if that is true or not but lostpedia is usually trustworthy*
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    I acutally more or less agree with you on this. I'm much more of an athlete then an intellectual.

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    I just want to point out that the reason Lost is pretty much nonsense and steaming bullshit right now is that they stopped making a character based show and started making "ANSWERS: THE BACKSTORY" to appease the ever-hungry subgroup of fans who refused to accept anything less than a level of detail suited to people with aspergers.

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    I keep hearing 23AD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalReynolds View Post
    I keep hearing 23AD.
    Was thought to be the original title of the episode and many people believe that was the time frame of the first few scenes.

    "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." -Anne Frank


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    Quote Originally Posted by hydro View Post
    I just want to point out that the reason Lost is pretty much nonsense and steaming bullshit right now is that they stopped making a character based show and started making "ANSWERS: THE BACKSTORY" to appease the ever-hungry subgroup of fans who refused to accept anything less than a level of detail suited to people with aspergers.
    hehe

    aspergers
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Vader View Post
    I acutally more or less agree with you on this. I'm much more of an athlete then an intellectual.

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    Okay, you've now said at a couple of points here that you're not going to reveal the name of the Man in Black. Is there a significance to that, or you've just decided you prefer the air of mystery it gives the character to not give him a name?

    CC: I think for us to explain why we're not giving him a name veers too far into the territory of explaining things that we don't feel the need to explain.

    "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." -Anne Frank


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    what? I read in another interview that writers were eventually going to reveal the name of the Man in Black.

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    I got the impression from this latest episode that "The Man in Black" is a separate entity to "Jacobs Brother", and that MIB just took on his figure at the end of the episode. Jacobs Brother wasn't given a name from his mother, and since nothing further was said during the episode, I assume he went through his life without a name.
    The episode didn't really tell us anything about MIBs backstory at all, just about the history of the man whose form he took on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mang View Post
    *taken from lostpedia*

    they're speaking latin and latin wasn't spoken socially that much beyond 900 AD, so it's presumeably around then or before then


    *I have no idea if that is true or not but lostpedia is usually trustworthy*
    They were also speaking english, I have no idea when english first came along though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teelo View Post
    They were also speaking english, I have no idea when english first came along though.
    The reason the characters suddenly started speaking English is because an episode entirely in Latin would be both difficult to write and to watch. The audience is supposed to assume the characters are still speaking in Latin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teelo View Post
    I got the impression from this latest episode that "The Man in Black" is a separate entity to "Jacobs Brother", and that MIB just took on his figure at the end of the episode. Jacobs Brother wasn't given a name from his mother, and since nothing further was said during the episode, I assume he went through his life without a name.
    The episode didn't really tell us anything about MIBs backstory at all, just about the history of the man whose form he took on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KT. View Post
    The reason the characters suddenly started speaking English is because an episode entirely in Latin would be both difficult to write and to watch. The audience is supposed to assume the characters are still speaking in Latin.
    Hrmm. If you say so.
    However, how does Jacobs Brother get his hair cut so short in 53AD...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KT. View Post
    well it's not an entirely dumb theory, but i do think it's wrong

    MIB does talk to kate about his crazy mother. also she says that, if jacob goes in there, he'll suffer a fate "worse than death". which i think is the exact fate the MIB now suffers.

    edit: my problem with that episode is that it didn't actually tell us anything. it gave us history with no details -- just more and more mythology with no actual mechanism. the writers have said it's more science based than magic based, and here we have glowing light that turns you to smoke for no discernible reason other than magic.

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    The Man in Black or whatever you're calling him this week is a separate entity from Jacob's brother. The end of the episode is really all the confirmation I need on that.


    Nice to see that we finally know who Adam and Eve were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaiTengu View Post
    The Man in Black or whatever you're calling him this week is a separate entity from Jacob's brother. The end of the episode is really all the confirmation I need on that.


    Nice to see that we finally know who Adam and Eve were.
    well, okay, but i'm not convinced -- it does seem the MIB has jacob's brother's consciousness, even if his body did die when he hit the rock (or during the smokeymaking process).

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    well, okay, but i'm not convinced -- it does seem the MIB has jacob's brother's consciousness, even if his body did die when he hit the rock (or during the smokeymaking process).
    He has Locke's consciousness too, and seemingly Christian Shepard's as well does that mean both of them are alive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teelo View Post
    Hrmm. If you say so.
    However, how does Jacobs Brother get his hair cut so short in 53AD...
    sissors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaiTengu View Post
    He has Locke's consciousness too, and seemingly Christian Shepard's as well does that mean both of them are alive?
    No, the MIB has both of their memories and when he takes on Christian and Locke's shape, he uses those memories to impersonate said people to further his own agenda (which is to leave the island). When the Man in Black came into contact with the Light, his body died and he turned into the Smoke Monster.

    I mean it's so fucking obvious. I mean, why the fuck would the writers commit an entire episode in the final season to "Jacob's Brother" if he's a totally different person than the MIB?

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    To fuck with us, because thats what they do?
    My theory is that the smoke monster already existed, as did the protector. The protector had been handed down, and when that woman wouldn't answer questions to Jacob, its probably because she didn't even know the answers herself. She had probably been shrouded in mystery in the exact same way when the job was handed down to her, by someone else.
    I'd say all that happened when Jacobs Brother was thrown into the water was he died when his head smacked on the rock, and floated downstream. When he passed through the light, the smoke monster as a separate entity took over his image.
    When smokey said that his mother was crazy, the previous protector didn't seem that crazy, and wasn't his mother anyway. His true mother wasn't crazy.

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    He still called her 'mother' after he found out she wasn't though.

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    She didnt seem crazy in the way Claire is though.

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    She didn't seem sane in the way Sawyer is though.

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    she was clearly crazy when she killed the mother.

    also, whether or not she WAS crazy, it's well established that MIB THOUGHT she was crazy and regarded her as such.

    yes, MIB has locke's memories and christian's as well as jacob's brother's... but MIB-as-locke referred to jacob's brother's mother as "my mother". that implies an actual consciousness transfer rather than just memory inheritance.

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    Perhaps it was smokey's first memory, so it's what sticks with him.

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    nonsense

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    nonsense
    Don't say that as if that's strange territory for this programme.

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    from a character point of view it's more ludicrous than anything they've given us so far

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    edit: except for a whole stupid episode about jack's fucking tattoo

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    I'd like to point out that even EW has taken to calling it a cheap mystery from the writers created by bad writing. Unless you're a waterhead like Teelo who honestly believes the MIB went his entire life without any sort of name.

    Also your timeframe doesn't really fit. The woman clearly isn't Jewish if she's defaulting to Latin (plus... a jew named Claudia?)--why would she give her son a Jewish name in 23AD? It's probably a mistake on the part of the writers, but signs don't point toward the very beginning of the common era. Though the fact that the mother has a game of Senet is probably a good indicator that SHE has been there a while.

    On a scale of one to cardboard cutout, how cheap did the mystery cave look? I mean Jesus, ABC.

    My concern with this episode is that it was supposed to be revealing answers, but if there's any depth to the Mother character (which, tbh, I'm skeptical about), then there's no real answers, other than the fact that she killed 2 people, she's eve, and her son is now a smoke monster. A character that straddles the line between crazy and sane doesn't provide any meaningful answers. With 3.5 hours left in the show (yeah, the finale is going to be 2.5 horrible, terrible, no good, very bad hours), it's time to stop this shit. I can't believe they followed up an awesome sub-go-boom episode with this garbage.

    The end of the show is going to be so bad it's horrible. Might as well get geared up for disappointment.

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    Also, in light of the mother's craziness, the Senet game might have been useful only to date Claudia's arrival. I personally think she was lying about leaving MIB Jr the game in order to obscure the fact that there are other people on the island.

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    sorry, i'm confused -- who brought up the mother being jewish? did i miss something?

    also the cave of wonders did look rubbish, yes. and everything else you said about the episode i either already said or otherwise agree with.

    i still hold out hope for the final few hours. call me a fool, but i'm an optimist till the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    she was clearly crazy when she killed the mother.

    also, whether or not she WAS crazy, it's well established that MIB THOUGHT she was crazy and regarded her as such.

    yes, MIB has locke's memories and christian's as well as jacob's brother's... but MIB-as-locke referred to jacob's brother's mother as "my mother". that implies an actual consciousness transfer rather than just memory inheritance.
    Locke's mother was crazy too. Just a reminder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    sorry, i'm confused -- who brought up the mother being jewish? did i miss something?

    also the cave of wonders did look rubbish, yes. and everything else you said about the episode i either already said or otherwise agree with.

    i still hold out hope for the final few hours. call me a fool, but i'm an optimist till the end.
    Well Gwahir, prior to the 1940s, Jews were given almost exclusively Hebrew names. Prior to the Bible and the end of widespread persecution of Christians, Jews were almost exclusive bearers of Hebrew (and more specifically, Old Testament) names. Since the proposed timeline of 23AD falls prior to the Holocaust and prior to the spread of Christianity (and, actually, the Bible), one can surmise that a baby given a Hebrew name like Jacob had a Jewish mother. Since the mother would also be bound to the same traditions, a latin name like Claudia wouldn't really seem to fit, would it?

    What timeframe would make more sense for a woman named Claudia to speak Latin and name her child Jacob? Sometime after the spread of Christianity, when Christians began adopting names from the Old Testament.

    If 23 AD is the year, then the writers fucked up.

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    i see. i failed to read the part about her giving her son a hebrew name, which i hadn't considered.

    probably a fuckup, i imagine, but a fairly small one.

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    With perspective on the mother, many assume that she herself was the smoke monster and that killing her with that dagger indeed released her from that fate. The 'Thank You' line kind of supports this. How would the mother know otherwise that going into the giant Quiznos oven would be a "fate worse than death".

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    Also, how else would a middle-aged lady kill a bunch of people, drag a full grown man out from the bottom of a well and then destroy said well?

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