So, about college for you older guys...

I'm a Junior in high school starting this fall and I'm wondering how my future's looking right now. I failed most of Freshmen year but I retook all my core classes and I believe I only have one elective left with a big fat F. My school works on the quarter system so it's 8 classes a year, new ones every 4 months or so. I took an AP class this year and passes so now I finished this year with a weighted GPA of 2.83. With the GPA from last year. I think my weighted will barely be a 2.0. If I get straight A's and take AP classes for the extra credit next year, do you think I could bring my GPA up to at least a 3.0 ? I'm a sort of smart dude but extremely unmotivated. Would I be able to get into UC Berkeley or UCSD with a 3.0? Sorry, it's just that I was hit really hard when I realized I could end up working at Mickey D's the rest of my life.

You probably won't get a 3.0.
Even if you did get a 3.0 you wont get into those schools.
You will be a perfect candidate for community college. Do 2 years of cc and you might be able to transfer to one of those schools.
Thats if you get your head out of your ass and start passing those easy high school courses.

Haa stupid freakin' American education system

I got into a major state university with a 2.8 GPA. Just do good on the ACT/SAT and write an impressive admissions essay. Oh, and do extracurricular activities like sports and volunteering and stuff. I mean yeah, you're not going to Berkeley or UCSD, so get past that. But you can always go somewhere else, and if it's really important to you, try to 4.0 your classes at that school and attempt a transfer.

Edit: But if I were you I'd set my sights a little more realistically.

You definitely need to make up for the lackluster GPA. Score a 2400 on the SAT and be class president or something. If you aren't involved in anything you can forget about it.

When I give tours to incoming students we tell them the four points our school takes into consideration:
1.GPA
2.SAT
3.Extra Curriculars
4.Classes taken

In that order. And, in all honesty, every school essentially has the same criterion.

Oh right, you also need to have an awesome entrance essay (a requirement for all UC's but not on the CSU's)

Do you know what you want to do? Like major-wise? That can certainly have an impact on the choice of schools.

I don't usually like talking about this (since it purely subjective) but I'll tell you what I had since I applied under the CSU and UC systems.

I had a 4.3, took mostly AP classes, was involved in the theater department and organized donation drives for homeless kids. I wasn't super involved like ASB but I was involved enough. I got into UCSD, UCSB, but not Berk Why? Similar students to me did, but it's a matter of what you're applying for, what department, if it's impacted, how tired the admissions counselor was when they read your application essay, etc. I am sure if I applied under Engineering instead of History at Berkley I would have gotten in, why? Because most liberal arts students at Berkley end up trying to get into the Law program, so it's more impacted. It's also fucking Berkley and they are a bunch of hippies.

My honest guess? You probably don't have a chance at Berk. UCSD maybe. That's a strong maybe. But remember there are other UC system schools. None of which I recommend beyond SB, SD, LA, and Berk, but there are plenty. You could also try CSU schools.

Higher education is easier to get into than you think, but you just need to understand your chances. If you're driven, you can always transfer from a community college.

I graduated with a 3.1, virtually no extra curricular activity's, 1410 SAT (disregarding the essay and bullshit writing section that no colleges care about) and several years of work experience(granted it was mostly fast food lol). I got into Lehigh, drexel, pitt, got wait listed at northeastern and got into UD(going in as a cs major for all of them). I'm not really sure how difficult those schools are to get into and everything but I'm just saying you don't have to go to community college just because you got a lower gpa. Granted I also went to a private school so that might have helped me a bit with the lower gpa but apply to these places anyway and bust your ass until it's over. My girlfriend graduated with a 4.3, mad extracurricular activities, took mad ap classes and shit and made drexel the best school she applied to because she choked on the SAT's and thought that would make other schools not take her. She could have definitely gone somewhere better (I mean I'm glad she didn't but the point remains the same).

TOGS basically summed it up. You can probably forget about Berkeley but that doesn't mean you will be at McDonalds your whole life, there are plenty of decent schools you should be able to get into with a 3.0 (or even a high 2.something) high school GPA. Kicking ass on your SAT will definitely help, too. If you are really dead-set on Berkeley, you could always try to transfer there after a year or two at wherever else you wind up going. Getting in as a transfer student is often easier than getting in as a freshman. Also, listen to what TOGS says about different programs/departments at the same schools being more or less selective. You can use that to your advantage. You can easily switch majors after your first year (most of the classes you take as a freshman will be GE crap that are required regardless of major), so if applying directly into your intended major program would decrease your chances of getting in, consider applying into a major program that's less selective and then switching. Be aware of differing acceptance rates for different programs/departments and game the system accordingly.

I graduated high school with like a 2.2 GPA, a 1540 SAT (this was back in the olden days when the max SAT score was 1600), and plenty of AP classes with 5's on the AP tests. I didn't get into any of the schools I applied to, probably because they could see by the juxtaposition of my high test scores and low GPA that I was too lazy to put my smarts to good use. I wound up doing two years in my local community college, got serious about motivating myself, and was able to transfer to a school I liked. So just bear in mind that even if you don't get in anywhere, your academic career isn't ruined, it's just been sidetracked a bit and can be put back on course with a little effort; you could still have your degree in four years' time from a good school, you might just spend two of those years at community college and then the other two at 'real' college. Don't buy into the idea that community college is some dead-end for hopeless fuckups, it's really not. With good grades in CC, you should be able to transfer even into highly selective schools.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

TOGS, if people took into account these other (minor) details, would you say my chances are improved at all?

GPA - 3.04 at the maximum, if I take all AP courses next year
SAT - I'm fairly certain I can do very well on this and the ACT. The reason I'm doing so poorly is because for the life of me, I just can't do homework or projects. Or won't rather. This will change
Extracurricular - Track, tennis, various clubs and at least 100 hours over the required community service hours.
Classes taken - I plan on doing a few AP courses next year (psychology, US history, RP program, Health Essentials)

The reason I aim for Berkeley is because it's a good place to start a career in pharmaceutics. Engineering is my second choice.

Would it be possible to transfer from a state school like SDSU to Berk after only 1 year?

It is possible, yes, but you'd have to wait until you were two years in. Most colleges won't look at your high school transcript if you've been out for two years and have over 60 credit hours at school. If you can keep your college GPA above a 3 you can transfer almost anywhere with it. For Berkeley specifically you have to have 60 credits before you transfer. The kicker there though is that the 25th percentile of transfer students into Berkeley have a 3.72 college GPA. If you can keep your GPA at SDSU around 3.75 you should be able to transfer into Berkeley, but keeping a 3.75 isn't easy if you aren't naturally an all-around gifted student to begin with.

If you're a B student (and not a minority) then realistically there is no chance that you'll get to go to Berkeley, unfortunately. There are many other schools with good pharmaceutical programs and there are schools with much more respected engineering programs than Berkeley. Sure, a Berkeley degree is nice and fancy, but at the end of the day it will usually end up as nothing greater than a tie breaker in terms of getting a job.

A degree from Berkeley is worth little more than a degree from any other major university in most fields. Besides, there are many other great options for a pharmaceutical degree. People put too much emphasis on where their degree is from and not enough on their actual skill sets.

Tremendously appreciated :]. So, with all that's been said, are there any schools in CA you guys would recommend for the career I want? A few that I would have a chance of being accepted into right off the bat?

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Originally Posted by Shinysides

A degree from Berkeley is worth little more than a degree from any other major university in most fields. Besides, there are many other great options for a pharmaceutical degree. People put too much emphasis on where their degree is from and not enough on their actual skill sets.

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The degree might not be worth much more, but the connections you get from school sure as shit are.

You might know the exact same material when you graduate from a regional school, but you're not going to have the school's resources to put you in touch with the powerful people who would be interested. Top recruiters go to top national universities.

To the OP: I had a 3.55 in high school, 1490 SAT/800 writing (this was before the 2400 scale--the writing section was an SAT II and required only by top schools.) I went to a top national private school, had strong extracurriculars, and visited/interviewed at every school to which I applied. I was offered admission to WashU (I think it was #8 at the time...) on the spot, and got into every school except Southern Cal.

Do some research beyond a general interest internet forum. There are consultants who get paid 5 figures to help get students into top universities. There's a method to the madness to ensure you stand out (maintaining ongoing contact with admissions persons, visits, interviews, recommendations, legacy, transcript, extracurricular leadership, athletics, etc.) Look at 3rd and 4th tier schools on USNews' rankings; you can pretty much skip the top50 with your credentials. I'm sure there are UC schools that will accept you somewhere, if that's the requirement.

If you can get your GPA up to above 3.0 and do well enough on your ACT and/or SAT then you can get into most UofC schools. If you can do that, of the various UofC locations you could get into, San Diego is the best for both pharm and engineering from the 3 minutes of research I just did on it, but I'm no expert.

Also, what Atmosfear is saying about connections isn't wrong, but you've got to work with what you've got.

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Originally Posted by Shinysides

Besides, there are many other great options for a pharmaceutical degree. People put too much emphasis on where their degree is from and not enough on their actual skill sets.

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True. Also take into consideration cost. CSU vs. UC. and your plans on undergrad vs. grad schools.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Tremendously appreciated :]. So, with all that's been said, are there any schools in CA you guys would recommend for the career I want? A few that I would have a chance of being accepted into right off the bat?

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I go to Cal Poly. I'm a little biased when I say this, but we are ranked for the 15th year in a row, Cal Poly has been rated the best public-master's university in the West by U.S. News & World Report and our College of Engineering which I am a part of is ranked as the first in the nation within the same criteria.

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Originally Posted by Atmosfear

The degree might not be worth much more, but the connections you get from school sure as shit are.

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Only if you have the personality and skill set.

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Originally Posted by Mr. E

If you can get your GPA up to above 3.0 and do well enough on your ACT and/or SAT then you can get into most UofC schools. If you can do that, of the various UofC locations you could get into, San Diego is the best for both pharm and engineering from the 3 minutes of research I just did on it, but I'm no expert.

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I would say this is mostly correct. I honestly would not count on UCSD or UCB, but if I were a betting man I would say you have good chances at places like Riverside, maybe Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, San Fran (I would recommend maybe SF for your medical stuff)

And don't forget there are some (see also: 2) shining lights in the CSU system... Cal Poly and SDSU.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Thanks for the replies everyone.

TOGS, if people took into account these other (minor) details, would you say my chances are improved at all?

GPA - 3.04 at the maximum, if I take all AP courses next year
SAT - I'm fairly certain I can do very well on this and the ACT. The reason I'm doing so poorly is because for the life of me, I just can't do homework or projects. Or won't rather. This will change
Extracurricular - Track, tennis, various clubs and at least 100 hours over the required community service hours.
Classes taken - I plan on doing a few AP courses next year (psychology, US history, RP program, Health Essentials)

Would it be possible to transfer from a state school like SDSU to Berk after only 1 year?

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Like I said bud, all subjective. You also have to worry about that essay (not that it's hard). They read thousands of applications like yours so you need to find what would stand out and place you as someone they want to have at their university.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

The reason I aim for Berkeley is because it's a good place to start a career in pharmaceutics. Engineering is my second choice.

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Look CFP, let me be blunt, since you may not have gotten the message yet, and if you want to do well from this point forward you need a realistic perspective on your situation, and your attitude is one of over-weening hubris:

Of course Berkley is a good school to start a career in many, many fields. On the other hand, being a professional basketball player is a good way to make money, as is being a movie star.


With near certainty, you will NOT get into Berkley, and if you really wanted to attend Berkley you should have started 3 years ago when you were a freshman in High School with good grades. I mean, if you really want to go to Berkley, then by all means make a serious effort, but don't set your heart on it. Also, make sure you look for and apply to strong alternate schools so that you don't screw yourself over in the end by not being realistic.

Over the last decade, admissions to every university have become more and more competitive, and at this point students that are by far stronger than you are the norm for even less regarded state schools like UMCP. Things are even worse at the top tier schools such as Berkley: their admissions are so swamped with exceptional students that they are looking for any reason to cull students from the selection process, and you give them such reasons in spades.

One last thing: do you think that people with pharmaceutical or engineering degrees from SDSU don't ever get careers? Of course they do.

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Would it be possible to transfer from a state school like SDSU to Berk after only 1 year?

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I have no idea, but again I wouldn't count on it.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

. The reason I'm doing so poorly is because for the life of me, I just can't do homework or projects. Or won't rather. This will change

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What are you doing to ensure that it will change? Are you getting outside help to help you improve you study skills? Are you reading books about how to improve your habits? etc.

This is another reason why I find your idea of getting into Berkley so shocking. You have fundamental problems with simply doing the work assigned to you in classes and are failing classes because of that. How can you not understand that Berkley is not the school for people like this? And what's more you will be miserable surrounded by super over-achievers. I mean, I probably would be as well. It's bad enough in podunk little UMCP.

For the record, SDSU is not a bad school. In fact they are highly highly regarded as having an amazing nursing program. I also lived 2 miles from the campus for much of my life. But they do party.... a lot.

Yes, I have been taking steps to ensure I'm more successful this year. As guilty as it makes me feel, my best friend promised she wouldn't let me slip up this year and I trust her to keep me focused.

Throw stress-relieving sex into the game and you're solid.

Also, I never meant to make it seem like I was trashing SDSU or community colleges. It wasn't my intention at all. It's just the SDSU campus is way too close to home for me, which is a bummer since I always wanted college to be my escape but then again, I really don't have many options since I fucked up last year and barely scraped by this year.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Yes, I have been taking steps to ensure I'm more successful this year. As guilty as it makes me feel, my best friend promised she wouldn't let me slip up this year and I trust her to keep me focused.

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You need to take more steps than that!

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Originally Posted by Captain Obvious!

You need to take more steps than that!

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Originally Posted by Captain Obvious!

You need to take more steps than that!

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Thank you, Captain Obvious (I went there!)

You should have also added that there is no way you're going to get into Berkley.

Seriously, though: you need some sort of counselling to get yourself on track.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Also, I never meant to make it seem like I was trashing SDSU or community colleges. It wasn't my intention at all. It's just the SDSU campus is way too close to home for me, which is a bummer since I always wanted college to be my escape but then again, I really don't have many options since I fucked up last year and barely scraped by this year.

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Fine, then there are plenty of other colleges that aren't Berkley which are away from your house, but because you didn't give a fuck until now, you're probably going to have to go into community college for the first couple years.

I mean, I went into physics, and even though MIT is a great school for physics, I knew coming out of high school I would never get into MIT. I was a far stronger student than you.

You need to be reasonable about the position that you put yourself in. Find other schools that have decent pharmacy programs but that you could reasonably transfer to out of community college.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Also, I never meant to make it seem like I was trashing SDSU or community colleges. It wasn't my intention at all. It's just the SDSU campus is way too close to home for me, which is a bummer since I always wanted college to be my escape but then again, I really don't have many options since I fucked up last year and barely scraped by this year.

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Where in San Diego do you live?

You seriously need to say that you're the Prince of Wales to get into Cal.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

Where in San Diego do you live?

You seriously need to say that you're the Prince of Wales to get into Cal.

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better start practicing on your english accent.

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Originally Posted by sycld

Thank you, Captain Obvious (I went there!)Fine, then there are plenty of other colleges that aren't Berkley which are away from your house, but because you didn't give a fuck until now, you're probably going to have to go into community college for the first couple years.

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I don't know about this, if he can turn that GPA around in his senior year, there are probably plenty of schools that will take him as a freshman, especially if his SATs are pretty good.

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Originally Posted by Syme

I don't know about this, if he can turn that GPA around in his senior year, there are probably plenty of schools that will take him as a freshman, especially if his SATs are pretty good.

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I'll take your word for it, as I would have thought that most decent schools would not take someone with a GPA less than 3.0, and I doubt he'll be able to raise it to above a 3.0 in one year.

On the other hand, if he can show definite improvement from his freshman year to his senior year, and discuss it in his essays, it's possible he can get into a good school.

Sorry, I don't get the prince of wales thing, but I guess CalPoly accepts more people from out of CA? I didn't factor in my senior year for my GPA, but if I ace all of my classes next year, it should be a 3.0 guaranteed. But isn't it true that senior year isn't really considered when applying to colleges? And yeah, there are other steps and measure I'm going through like preparing for the SAT to make sure I get a perfect score and I'm looking about taking online classes for some courses my school doesn't offer retakes for. I'll have to make sure the colleges I apply to consider those valid though. And as for area; I live in the Oak Park neighborhood, idk if you know where that is, but it's a few minutes from City Heights. That's best I can describe it.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

But isn't it true that senior year isn't really considered when applying to colleges?

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Unfortunately, usually only the first semester is completed by the time applications are submitted.

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And yeah, there are other steps and measure I'm going through like preparing for the SAT to make sure I get a perfect score and I'm looking about taking online classes for some courses my school doesn't offer retakes for. I'll have to make sure the colleges I apply to consider those valid though.

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Okay, first of all, you're not going to get a perfect score on your SAT, but it's good that you're working to improve your score.

Secondly, those online classes will probably count only if your school puts them on your transcript, but that doesn't sound like it's the case.

Have you talked to your school's counselor about your situation or anyone else that works at getting high school students into college?

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Originally Posted by sycld

Have you talked to your school's counselor about your situation or anyone else that works at getting high school students into college?

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The school itself has a period in the morning where you can take those online classes, so I'm hoping the colleges will validate them as A-G and course credit. I've only talked to my teacher, the counselor for my class was always out or busy doing whatever. I think there are programs that guarantee admission to SDSU, but I heard it only applies to freshmen. I'll check it out once it starts in september.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

Sorry, I don't get the prince of wales thing, but I guess CalPoly accepts more people from out of CA? I didn't factor in my senior year for my GPA, but if I ace all of my classes next year, it should be a 3.0 guaranteed. I'll have to make sure the colleges I apply to consider those valid though. And as for area; I live in the Oak Park neighborhood, idk if you know where that is, but it's a few minutes from City Heights. That's best I can describe it.

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Just because it doesn't factor in for the application, a transcript still needs to be sent at the end of your school year.

Cal Poly is the hardest of the CSU's to get into.

For courses that apply for different schools visit:
http://www.assist.org/web-assist/welcome.html

I lived in La Mesa, by the way.

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Originally Posted by sycld

I'll take your word for it, as I would have thought that most decent schools would not take someone with a GPA less than 3.0, and I doubt he'll be able to raise it to above a 3.0 in one year.

On the other hand, if he can show definite improvement from his freshman year to his senior year, and discuss it in his essays, it's possible he can get into a good school.

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Ahh, from the OP, I thought he was saying he would have a cumulative HS GPA of 2.83 at the end of junior year, now I see that he meant 2.83 for his junior year only and ~2.0 cumulative HS after this year. Well, CFP, that will make it a bit harder than I initially thought, but you should still have a fighting chance at getting into a decent school if you can show a good SAT score and good senior year grades. Good senior grades can let you "punch above your weight" in terms of HS GPA when applying, as has been discussed, so that's definitely the main thing you need to strive for, more so than SATs or anything else. And yeah, a good essay talking about how/why you've learned to motivate yourself and do better than you did early in HS will help too.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

The school itself has a period in the morning where you can take those online classes, so I'm hoping the colleges will validate them as A-G and course credit.

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Have you actually talked to your school to see if they will count these credits? I can't imagine your school not counting these credits but then the college you're applying to counting them.

Dude, it's obvious your perspective on things is unrealistic, from both claiming you will score a perfect score on your SAT to actually thinking that Berkley is a viable option for you. You also seem to lack knowledge of how college admissions work.

You need to get on your school's counselor's ass and hound him for answers, and you need to talk to people at both your local community college and the admissions people from SCHOOLS YOU HAVE A REASONABLE CHANCE OF ENTERING (not Berkley or Cal Poly or the like; you are not going to get into them at this point, period). Your situation is difficult at this point, and you need to contact these people to find out how to straighten it out. As Atmosfear said, you're not going to get your answers from this Internet forum.

I didn't mean I'm positive I'll get a perfect score, I know that's unrealistic. I wouldn't call myself realistic or unrealistic at this point, I'm just determined to go straight to a Higher learning institute instead of delaying myself or having to to enter community college.

I just wanna clear some stuff up in case some people were confused, I kinda worded my OP awkwardly. I'm a sophomore as we speak. I'll become a junior in september. right now, my cumulative gpa is probably 2.5 or somewhere there.

EDIT: Just for clarification, my gpa for all freshmen-junior years is the cumulative at that point (the end of each year) divided by three right?
ex:
2.0 plus 2.83 plus hypothetical 4.25 divided by three should give me my overall? sorry, im rusty at this point

Oh I thought your cumulative was a 3.0. Listen to everything sycld said.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

I just wanna clear some stuff up in case some people were confused, I kinda worded my OP awkwardly. I'm a sophomore as we speak. I'll become a junior in september. right now, my cumulative gpa is probably 2.5 or somewhere there.

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oh woops. i thought you were a junior entering your senior year.

the good news is that you at least have time to show an improvement of your junior and senior GPAs, which may help admissions departments look over your weak sophomore and freshman level performance.

you still will not get into berkley, however.

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Originally Posted by Cherry Flavored Pez

EDIT: Just for clarification, my gpa for all freshmen-junior years is the cumulative at that point (the end of each year) divided by three right?
ex:
2.0 plus 2.83 plus hypothetical 4.25 divided by three should give me my overall? sorry, im rusty at this point

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Yes, that's correct. So if you really kick ass in your junior year and manage to get that 4.25, your cumulative HS GPA for 9th-11th grade will be a (2 + 2.83 + 4.25) / 3 = 3.02, not great but not bad either. Bear in mind that the first half of your senior year may also be factored into the GPA that college admissions officers see, depending on when you apply.

Bottom line, if you can turn your shit around next year and senior year, you should be able to fulfill your goal of getting directly into a four-year school without going to community college. As sycld says, not Berkeley, but some four-year school.

Earlier, you were talking about how your best friend said she isn't going to let you screw up this coming year. I can tell you right now that will not be enough. If you rely on other people to keep you motivated by prodding you along, it simply will not work. The motivation has to come from you. I guess it's nice to have encouragement from your friends, but ultimately that's not what will determine your success. You have to be able to realize that the immediate pleasures of slacking off aren't worth the future consequences of it, and you have to be able to realize that strongly enough to make yourself sit down every night and study when you'd rather be doing your own thing. It's just a question of maturity/responsibility; if you don't have enough of it, then no amount of encouragement and prodding from your friends will make you get good grades. It'll be like they were telling a rock to fly. I know because I was in the exact same boat in high school, I didn't have the maturity to make myself buckle down no matter how much my friends pushed me. I hope you do.

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Originally Posted by sailor jack

stupid American education system

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About the stupid American education system...

The fact is that until you get a Masters degree or above in America, you're basically always behind most of the rest of the world when comparing equivalent degrees. For example, in most of Europe, to get the equivalent of a bachelor's degree, you have to actually write a thesis on original research and defend it. Essentially, the "basic" European university degree is a Masters-equivalent in the US. I know this is the case in many other countries as well. And of course, most high schools in Europe (pre-university high schools at least) are more rigorous than most high schools in the US, except for magnate high schools and the like.

That's the reason why European PhD programs are like no more than 4 years, whereas the time it takes to get a US PhD from a US bachelor's degree is more like 5 to 7 years, and sometimes more.

The third year British university syllabus is an entirely personal dissertation

I know of a guy who wrote his whole 3rd year piece on how the electric guitar can be described as an historical artefact

A good essay as well as high SAT scores will definitely help your case. So will any past job and extracurricular experience, especially if it's diverse.

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Originally Posted by jack burden

especially if it's diverse.

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Speaking of diverse, if you can pass yourself off as a biracial half black lesbian M to F trangendered person, your chances will skyrocket.

Also, sailor jack, I was going to put something in there about how "British universities may be an exception," but I thought better of it...

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Originally Posted by jack burden

A good essay as well as high SAT scores will definitely help your case. So will any past job and extracurricular experience, especially if it's diverse.

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The essay is probably one of the last aspects that are considered in your application. They want numbers first and foremost. It's the best judge for where to place you on the gradient, SAT(ACT)/GPA are the numbers they look to first. If you aren't in the median you're not even in the considered pile.

Average GPA of a student entering my school last year was a 3.8. Sad fact is, they were probably, mostly, rejected from many of the UC's they applied to.

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Originally Posted by sycld

Speaking of diverse, if you can pass yourself off as a biracial half black lesbian M to F trangendered person, your chances will skyrocket..

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Don't forget disabled.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

The essay is probably one of the last aspects that are considered in your application. They want numbers first and foremost. It's the best judge for where to place you on the gradient, SAT(ACT)/GPA are the numbers they look to first. If you aren't in the median you're not even in the considered pile.

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Then again, this depends on the school. Some of the schools that are only moderately competative will
consider your numerical indicators in light of your essay, provided that you at least showed, for example, marked improvement, or, say, if there were an anomolous dip in your performane that could have corresponded to a difficult event in your persoanl life. You also better have a damn good explanation that you explain well in your essay.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

The essay is probably one of the last aspects that are considered in your application. They want numbers first and foremost. It's the best judge for where to place you on the gradient, SAT(ACT)/GPA are the numbers they look to first. If you aren't in the median you're not even in the considered pile.

Average GPA of a student entering my school last year was a 3.8. Sad fact is, they were probably, mostly, rejected from many of the UC's they applied to.

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It depends entirely on the college. Obviously you go to one that values grades and is selective, but obviously most colleges are less demanding. Some consider essays because they demonstrate the applicant's writing ability. They do put more weight on SAT scores, though. Those are really important. It's a good idea to take it multiple times if you don't do well the first time.

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Originally Posted by sycld

Then again, this depends on the school. Some of the schools that are only moderately competative will
consider your numerical indicators in light of your essay, provided that you at least showed, for example, marked improvement, or, say, if there were an anomolous dip in your performane that could have corresponded to a difficult event in your persoanl life. You also better have a damn good explanation that you explain well in your essay.

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Oh yeah. Some do consider personal life problems like that if you bring them up as a reasonable explanation for why you didn't do as well as you could have.

I can't speak in general terms, but I know that I and a number of my friends/peers had to write theses to get our bachelor's degrees. Though it's probably fair to say that they weren't always evaluated as rigorously as a masters thesis would be, let alone a doctoral.

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Originally Posted by Syme

I can't speak in general terms, but I know that I and a number of my friends/peers had to write theses to get our bachelor's degrees. Though it's probably fair to say that they weren't always evaluated as rigorously as a masters thesis would be, let alone a doctoral.

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Yeah. I mean in Italy, for example, the thesis for a bachelor's-equivalent degree has to be defended at the same level as a Master's thesis in the US, and it is printed and kept in the university's library just as a Master's thesis would be.

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Originally Posted by sailor jack

The third year British university syllabus is an entirely personal dissertation

I know of a guy who wrote his whole 3rd year piece on how the electric guitar can be described as an historical artefact

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Well I'm doing a degree in Creative Writing so in three years time I get to do a massive evaluated piece instead of a dissertation. It'll finally give me the motivation to write a full novella.

If you are going into Pharmacy I would go for University of the Pacific. It is up by Sacramento and San Francisco in Stockton. The tuition is high, but they are very good with scholarships, and if you play any instruments you can get in easier if you are in their music program. Their pharmecuitical program is one of the best in the country and the school itself is not hard to get into. I got in with a full scholarship with a 3.0. and a 1750 sat (I did get scholarships for music though). I would not recommend going to SDSU, I also live in San Diego and everyone I know of who wants to get out of San Diego and goes to SDSU hates it. I don't know what high school you go to, but at my high school a bunch of people go there, so you will be seeing the same people all the time.

Oh and if you graduate from University of the Pacific with a pharmaceutical degree, Longs Drugs guarentees you a job starting at 100k a year.

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Originally Posted by Edvina

Oh and if you graduate from University of the Pacific with a pharmaceutical degree, Longs Drugs guarentees you a job starting at 100k a year.

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You mean with an undergrad degree, or with a Pharm D or what?

Because if it's with just a BS, I wish that someone told me this earlier... and also that I were in the same broken, disillusioned state that I'm in now.

Whatever college you do decide on make sure you go with pharmacy, engineering, or something in the sciences. Otherwise you're fucked.

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Originally Posted by Edvina

If you are going into Pharmacy I would go for University of the Pacific. It is up by Sacramento and San Francisco in Stockton. The tuition is high, but they are very good with scholarships, and if you play any instruments you can get in easier if you are in their music program. Their pharmecuitical program is one of the best in the country and the school itself is not hard to get into. I got in with a full scholarship with a 3.0. and a 1750 sat (I did get scholarships for music though). I would not recommend going to SDSU, I also live in San Diego and everyone I know of who wants to get out of San Diego and goes to SDSU hates it. I don't know what high school you go to, but at my high school a bunch of people go there, so you will be seeing the same people all the time.

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Hah, so true, that's why I passed up UCSD and never even applied to SDSU.

Look into UCSF and the following schools that have pharmacy programs:
# University of California

* School of Pharmacy, San Francisco, CA
o Department of Pharmaceutical Chemistry
+ Cellular and Molecular Pharmacology
+ Tack Kuntz Group (DOCK software)
* Department of Molecular and Medical Pharmacology, Los Angeles, CA

# University of the Pacific, Thomas J. Long School of Pharmacy and Health Sciences, Stockton, CA 95211
# Western University of Health Sciences, College of Pharmacy, Pomona, CA
# University of California, San Diego, School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, 9500 Gilman Drive, MC 0657, La Jolla, CA 92093-0657
# Loma Linda University, School of Pharmacy, 11262 Campus Street, Loma Linda, CA 92354
# Touro University, College of Pharmacy, Vallejo CA
# California Northstate College of Pharmacy, 455 Capitol Mall, Suite 317, Sacramento CA 95814


May I recommend if you are good at math and the sciences and enjoy them.. the world always needs more engineers.

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Originally Posted by TheDudeFish

Whatever college you do decide on make sure you go with pharmacy, engineering, or something in the sciences. Otherwise you're fucked.

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This is dumb, don't listen to it.

ALL DEGREES OTHER THAN JOURNALISM ARE WASTES OF GOD DAMNED TIME YOU CAN BET YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS ON THAT ONE

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Originally Posted by Syme

This is dumb, don't listen to it.

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Good thing a philosophy degree is perfect for todays economy

oh wait

(what I meant to get at is: don't get a shit degree that you will regret getting)

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Originally Posted by TheDudeFish

Good thing a philosophy degree is perfect for todays economy

oh wait

(what I meant to get at is: don't get a shit degree that you will regret getting)

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He should get a degree in a field that interests him and that he wants to get a degree in. If that's a scientific or engineering degree, great. If it's a philosophy degree, great also. People with liberal arts degrees aren't doomed to unemployment; it can a be a bit harder for them, but they're not stuck out in the cold (if nothing else, they can always go to law school). A lot of employers don't care what your degree is in, they just want you to have a degree because it's evidence that you can work hard and learn things. If he has no interest in science or engineering, it would be a terrible idea for him to force himself into a field he doesn't like for the sake of having a somewhat easier time finding a job after graduation. That would be a "shit degree that he would regret getting". Today's economy isn't going to last for the rest of our lives, in fact it's already starting to turn around and will probably be back to normal in a few more years, so that's an incredibly poor basis for making a decision that will heavily affect the rest of your life. Besides, bear in mind that you are giving advice to someone who just finished sophomore year of high school, so "today's economy" is actually totally irrelevant to him; he's not trying to find a job in today's economy, he'll be trying to find a job in 2015's economy.

This is all academic, since I think the OP has already talking about majoring in pharmaceutics or engineering, but the idea that you're screwed if you get anything other than a science, engineering, or pharmacy degree is retarded.

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Originally Posted by sycld

You mean with an undergrad degree, or with a Pharm D or what?

Because if it's with just a BS, I wish that someone told me this earlier... and also that I were in the same broken, disillusioned state that I'm in now.

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It is like after finishing their 6 year program, it is year around though.

People who get liberal arts degrees and don't intend to continue their education are doomed.

Then again, people who get B.S.' and don't intend to continue their education are doomed.

Most BBAs (especially finance, risk management, and MIS), Computer Science, any type of engineering, and some journalism (particularly PR) are the most marketable degrees. If you have a BA or BS with no second major, go ahead and plan on going straight to a masters/law/medicine/pharm/vet program.

Engineering and computer science bachelor's degrees are usually B.S.'s...

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Originally Posted by sycld

Engineering and computer science bachelor's degrees are usually B.S.'s...

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I was about to say "well obviously Atmosfear never got to the science and math side of campus very often," but then I recalled that he also majored in biology.

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Originally Posted by TheDudeFish

Good thing a philosophy degree is perfect for todays economy

oh wait

(what I meant to get at is: don't get a shit degree that you will regret getting)

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Why would you pay money for college if you're not going to pursue something that interests you? You may as well just skip it and go work at some backwater factory.

On another note, there are a lot of people who come out of college without being able to write well. That should be a priority no matter what field you're choosing.

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Originally Posted by Edvina

If you are going into Pharmacy I would go for University of the Pacific.

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This sounds like an option I should really consider, thanks. I do play quite a few instruments so maybe that'll add a little weight to my application.

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Originally Posted by jack burden

Why would you pay money for college if you're not going to pursue something that interests you? You may as well just skip it and go work at some backwater factory.

On another note, there are a lot of people who come out of college without being able to write well. That should be a priority no matter what field you're choosing.

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There's a reason the term "starving artist" exists.

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Originally Posted by TheDudeFish

There's a reason the term "starving artist" exists.

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You don't get the point. As long as you are doing what you love, it doesn't really matter.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

You don't get the point. As long as you are doing what you love, it doesn't really matter.

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that's why the attrition rate in careers like music and acting is so enormous?

he didn't say anything about job security or financial security or anything

he's just saying if you do something you truly love, your quality of life will be better for it. if it doesnt work out, oh well, at least you did something you love. :)

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

You don't get the point. As long as you are doing what you love, it doesn't really matter.

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haha
i used to think this but i am not so sure anymore

as sad as it is, without money you can't paint
food to keep you alive to continue painting and of course, paints and canvasses.

yeah money is pretty important it seems, who would have thought

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

You don't get the point. As long as you are doing what you love, it doesn't really matter.

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this line still works for me :solepoke:

The density of people on this forum is rather astonishing.

Turn the term "starving artist" around. Yes, he/she is starving because artists don't make money. But also look at it like they are willing to starve and go through hell because, at least, unlike others, they can put up with the hardships to say that they are content doing their art.

Then again, I'm about to start dating an engineer who paints on the side.. she's got her shit down.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

The density of people on this forum is rather astonishing.

Turn the term "starving artist" around. Yes, he/she is starving because artists don't make money. But also look at it like they are willing to starve and go through hell because, at least, unlike others, they can put up with the hardships to say that they are content doing their art.

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The density of the TOGS on this forum is rather astonishing.

Dissect the term "starving artist" into its various components. Yes, for a while he/she is happy to be an artist. But also look at it like their will to starve is only so strong because, at least, just like others, they can't put up with the hardships to say that they are content doing their art for that long.

Actually, the density of the TOGS on this forum is quite low, namely 1 per 786 members, or at best 1 per 255 active members. Yet it is higher than the density of TOGS on the majority of internet forums, which is 0.

Of the artists I know, none are starving (and I mean I know a lot from UCSB). Marketing and advertising always need the artists.

I just spent the last 10 minutes geeking out on how to approximate my actual density. For a moment considered filling one of the 55 gallons we have here at work with water and getting in to get the appropriate volume.

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Originally Posted by TheDudeFish

There's a reason the term "starving artist" exists.

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Yes, pointing out the existence of a cliche term totally proves your point, and debunks the idea that people should major in a field that actually interests them rather than whatever field they think will make it easiest to get a job. Well done.

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Originally Posted by ShitFace

haha
i used to think this but i am not so sure anymore

as sad as it is, without money you can't paint
food to keep you alive to continue painting and of course, paints and canvasses.

yeah money is pretty important it seems, who would have thought

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Yep, so people who want to devote their lives to art will have to get a job on the side until they can support themselves through their art. Yep, they will probably have a (comparatively) hardscrabble living standard during this period, since whatever job they get probably won't pay as well as the job that, say, an engineering major can get when they graduate. This doesn't really refute what TOGS said at all. He never said that money itself is absolutely unnecessary; I would have though it was obvious that what he meant was that making lots of money in a field you dislike isn't necessarily better than making less money in a field you love. Obviously you need SOME money, he wasn't suggesting that it's possible to get by with literally $0 in your pocket.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

Of the artists I know, none are starving (and I mean I know a lot from UCSB). Marketing and advertising always need the artists.

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LOL

So you're saying that a self-identified "artist" being forced to work in marketing and advertising isn't the worst sort of betrayal of one's artistic principles?

They would usually consider it to be so. To most writers, there is no lower form of writing than writing ads (greeting cards probably rank higher). To composers, there is no lower form of composition than jingle writing. Etc.

The density of the syclds on this forum is rather astonishing. There's no way we have 255 active anything

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Originally Posted by sycld

LOL

So you're saying that a self-identified "artist" being forced to work in marketing and advertising isn't the worst sort of betrayal of one's artistic principles?

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Uh, no, I think what he's saying is that if you get an art (or whatever) degree, it's not impossible to find employers who are willing to hire people with those sorts of degrees, so you aren't necessarily going to be starving and broke as some posters have suggested. Yeah, obviously there isn't much artistic gratification in working for an advertising firm--obviously someone with an art degree wouldn't want to spend their whole life in that sort of job. You use that job to pay your bills, while you work on your own art in your own time, and try to eventually find a job that's more in line with what you actually want to spend your life doing. His point isn't that churning out ad copy is a fulfillment of artistic principle, it's that the "starving artist" cliche is not really accurate because people with arts degrees can get jobs too.

I should hire Syme on retainer.

That is what I mean though. You can be an artist and work at McDonalds for all you care, or be fortunate enough to work in a somewhat related field, but still be able to go home and sit at your canvas, easel, or whatever and pump out creative work.

Dunno if you're still paying attention to this thread, BUT:

What you want to do is call your community colleges and ask about the TAG program -- that's Transfer-something-guaranteed. If you make it through a set of CC courses, you get guaranteed admission into a UC school. One of the schools offered by one of the community colleges *is* UC Berkley, but I can't remember for the life of me which CC offers TAG to UCB. There is one in San Diego though, or at least when I was trying to sort it out in 2004. Each CC has different agreements with different UCs and state schools. I got into Humboldt on a TAG (but I didn't need to, I got good grades in my CC).

I didn't flub up quite as hard as you in high school, but pretty damn close. I'm now a successful graduate student at the University of Washington in Geography, one of the top ten departments in the nation. The good news is that if you decide to go on, admissions LOVES a good "I flubbed up but now I'm here" story.

p.s. I don't check this forum often (and I'm out of the country on research), but feel free to shoot me a PM if you'd like more direction. I was born and bred in San Diego, and did all of my CC work there as well.