Seeking a depression diagnosis

I'll cut right to the chase and not bother with anonymity because, frankly, I feel like venting, which requires at least SOME openness.

Does anyone here know anything, or have any experience with, getting a diagnosis of depression? Getting counselling? Etc.

I basically know how to get one (start with GP, ???, profit)... I guess I'm just looking for any advice, ideas, or feelings people have on the matter.

For a few years I have, in a sort of sick way, craved a diagnosis of depression, so my occasionally extreme periods of sadness could be somehow legitimised; so I could at least tell myself I'm sad because my brain sucks, and not because my life does. But I've never really given it much consideration, mostly because when I'm really down, I'm always really down about something. My future, my talent, my love life and connection with other people, and so on. As well as that, I have a considerable family history of depression, and my observation of the depressed people in my life suggested they were hurting a lot more than I ever was. It's only now that I'm starting to really consider the possibility, because of the trouble I've had in the past few weeks just holding on to myself.

There's a recurring feeling that my friends with their various mental health issues (artists :rolleyes: ) speak of, which is the feeling of uncontrollable slipping -- the feeling I've had over the past three weeks or so is that I've slipped, and fallen in, and been buried alive. I've had it before, just not this bad.

Anyway, that's the vent. Now I guess I just want people's thoughts.

And, in case anyone's interested, a google of "diagnostic criteria for depression" returned a list of criteria, 5/9 of which one has to fulfill to be diagnosed with the condition. Depending on whether I look at it skeptically or hypochondrially (it's a word... now), I fit between four and eight of the criteria.

I'm obviously not dumb enough to suggest or think that an internet diagnosis holds any weight, ever, but it does seem to suggest that seeing someone is worthy of consideration.

Aren't you in school? Typically your health center will offer some type of counseling, usually up to a certain number of sessions per semester. I would start there, and let them determine if it's necessary for you to be referred to someone who can make a diagnosis and/or prescription (just depends on how the service is structured for students.)

To go ahead and prepare you, the first thing they are going to do is question your alcohol use and before they make any prescription, they're going to want you to basically stop drinking. They'll give you a whole lot of information about the effects of alcohol and alcohol abuse and, no matter how much you insist, they are going to claim you fit the clinical definition of an alcoholic. This is step 1 for any and all depression treatment (because alcohol is obviously a huge depressant.)

One of the big indicators of depression isn't the mood/psychological effects, its the actual physical effects. You haven't seemed to mention any of those, so it sounds more like you just need someone to talk to and validate the complexity of your self-image. A counselor is a good place to start.

I basically agree with everything Atmosfear said. I think it's crucial that you speak with a counselor or therapist soon. If you think you have depression, you probably do.

And if you are diagnosed with depression, know that shit gets better. I was diagnosed with depression in 2004. With the right meds I eventually started feeling better. In 2008 I stopped seeing a therapist and in late 2009 I stopped taking my medicine. I haven't displayed any signs of depression since then.

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

Aren't you in school? Typically your health center will offer some type of counseling, usually up to a certain number of sessions per semester. I would start there, and let them determine if it's necessary for you to be referred to someone who can make a diagnosis and/or prescription (just depends on how the service is structured for students.)

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Nah, graduated. Which reminds me, I'll thank everyone to start referring to me as Gwahir, B.A. from now on.

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

To go ahead and prepare you, the first thing they are going to do is question your alcohol use and before they make any prescription, they're going to want you to basically stop drinking. They'll give you a whole lot of information about the effects of alcohol and alcohol abuse and, no matter how much you insist, they are going to claim you fit the clinical definition of an alcoholic. This is step 1 for any and all depression treatment (because alcohol is obviously a huge depressant.)

One of the big indicators of depression isn't the mood/psychological effects, its the actual physical effects. You haven't seemed to mention any of those, so it sounds more like you just need someone to talk to and validate the complexity of your self-image. A counselor is a good place to start.

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I barely drink any alcohol at all, ever, because I just don't like it very much. So the first bit isn't really going to apply to me. (I suspect it's also probably an American thing, because that is completely unlike anything I've ever heard about speaking to a professional about depression.) As for physical symptoms -- are you referring to fatigue, trouble sleeping (or trouble over-sleeping), and so on? I didn't mention them, but they're there.

Yes, just talking might do the trick. It would take a lot of convincing before I considered taking meds, anyway.

Thanks anon. Part of my whole situation is that it means nothing to me to think that depression (if I have it) will get better, when I'm so pessimistic about my actual life getting better. But, like all things with me, that pessimism ebbs and flows.

Gwahir, Bullshit Artist

baby you're a firework

Gwahir, have you ever felt like a plastic bag?

Thin and empty, or white and full of shit?

Gwahir, Breast Auditor

Gwahir, Bad Ass

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

Aren't you in school? Typically your health center will offer some type of counseling, usually up to a certain number of sessions per semester. I would start there, and let them determine if it's necessary for you to be referred to someone who can make a diagnosis and/or prescription (just depends on how the service is structured for students.)

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This is really good advice. I was having some mental issues a while ago (okay that makes it sound like I was crazy, tbh it was self-esteem issues manifesting themselves in various ways in a relationship) and the school counseling service was a godsend. I know you said you're out of school, but if whatever health care system you're a part of allows you to cheaply see a therapist/counselor, do it.

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Originally Posted by gwahir

As for physical symptoms -- are you referring to fatigue, trouble sleeping (or trouble over-sleeping), and so on? I didn't mention them, but they're there.

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Honestly I've been dealing with the exact same shit since like mid-January but it's entirely stress-related (and I've dealt with it in the past, also stress-related) (I know it's stress-related because I can easily identify the stressor and, in the past, the symptoms resolve themselves when I eliminate it). I'm sure there are psychoactives that can help with this (and I probably wouldn't be crazy to seek these out as these bouts really do mess with my life) but I just work until I can eliminate the stressors. If your symptoms are stress-caused, a counselor/therapist would likely help you identify them (if you can't) and work to manage them.

Of course, you could be experiencing something completely different but as I'm not a professional in the field my experiences are all I have to offer.

As an update, I saw my GP and described the qualities of these periods I have (dense and lasting periods of sadness/anguish and general low self-esteem; continuous fatigue no matter how I've slept; complete absense of appetite; non-suicidal but recurring thoughts of death, the feeling I'd rather not be alive; a feeling of intense cold despite putting on more clothes or a heater; inability to relate or communicate or take responsibility), and he agreed it was some kind of depressive illness. I've just had a blood test to rule out a thyroid problem (and lupus) and other unlikely things and he'll see me next week to discuss more in-depth.

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Originally Posted by sponge

I'm sure there are psychoactives that can help with this (and I probably wouldn't be crazy to seek these out as these bouts really do mess with my life) but I just work until I can eliminate the stressors. If your symptoms are stress-caused, a counselor/therapist would likely help you identify them (if you can't) and work to manage them.

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It's not really stress-related, what I go through, but it does seem to be triggered by things. Not always events, but processes and feelings and things that relate to how things are in the world.

I'm the same as you -- or have been until now. I brush off these periods of darkness as normal considering I am generally unhappy with where I am in life, and work at fixing the things that trigger me instead of working on my own reactions to them.

Now I've come to realise that my way of dealing and thinking does not equip me well to help myself, and I just need outside help.

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

To go ahead and prepare you, the first thing they are going to do is question your alcohol use and before they make any prescription, they're going to want you to basically stop drinking. They'll give you a whole lot of information about the effects of alcohol and alcohol abuse and, no matter how much you insist, they are going to claim you fit the clinical definition of an alcoholic. This is step 1 for any and all depression treatment (because alcohol is obviously a huge depressant.)

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That's... not true. Or at least it's not true if the guy you're seeing isn't a quack.

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

One of the big indicators of depression isn't the mood/psychological effects, its the actual physical effects. You haven't seemed to mention any of those, so it sounds more like you just need someone to talk to and validate the complexity of your self-image. A counselor is a good place to start.

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But this is, though I would say "isn't just the mood/psychological effects."

I'm surprised that Atmosfear is being... compassionate. A little.

You might be mildly depressed, or you might be borderline, or you might be something else than "depressed," I guess.

I dunno if I should be telling you some of the symptoms of depression and anxiety, which are in the spoiler, in case you are going to start recognizing phantom "symptoms." So there's your fair warning :p

Spoiler

You're probably clearly depressed if you are lethargic, losing interest in things that normally interest you, withdrawing from others, having trouble getting out of bed in the morning, have a feeling of impending, and unavoidable doom that clouds your thoughts, among others.

But then there is also anxiety, which has its own host of physical and mental symptoms: a feeling of unreality or disconnection to your body, and physical manifestations of panic (heart palpitations, excess sweating, physical tremors, etc. Once my heart was palpitating so quickly I thought I was going into cardiac fibrillation and was about to call 911.), among others.

They're two different things, though they frequently accompany each other.

Probably the two most accurate self-assessments are the Burns Depression Checklist and the Burns Anxiety Checklist, though of course neither of them ever replaces consultation with a professional... and even then, professionals are sometimes full of shit. Sometimes.


Or maybe you're just feeling down because zee artistes must feel that, eh life, she iz la merde.

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Originally Posted by gwahir

As an update, I saw my GP and described the qualities of these periods I have (dense and lasting periods of sadness/anguish and general low self-esteem; continuous fatigue no matter how I've slept; complete absense of appetite; non-suicidal but recurring thoughts of death, the feeling I'd rather not be alive; a feeling of intense cold despite putting on more clothes or a heater; inability to relate or communicate or take responsibility), and he agreed it was some kind of depressive illness. I've just had a blood test to rule out a thyroid problem (and lupus) and other unlikely things and he'll see me next week to discuss more in-depth.

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Yeah that sounds like depression, and those sorts of blood tests are typically the first things done.

hehe thanks for the post; i also forgot to list losing interest in things that normally drive me (eg theatre)

Pfft well I didn't have to make that long ass post then :p

But yeah, if you want to know about depression outside of a clinical perspective... I'm your go to guy.


._.

Well sycld since he is no longer in the educational system and doesn't drink, it is pretty safe to say that they won't press the issue of alcohol. But for everyone who goes to a campus health center and is a normal student, they're an alcoholic because that's what students do. I guess if you're one of those horrible people whose social life in college included World of Warcraft and studying, then maybe they won't bother you.

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

Well sycld since he is no longer in the educational system and doesn't drink, it is pretty safe to say that they won't press the issue of alcohol. But for everyone who goes to a campus health center and is a normal student, they're an alcoholic because that's what students do. I guess if you're one of those horrible people whose social life in college included World of Warcraft and studying, then maybe they won't bother you.

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Welp notwithstanding that I was one of those horrible people whose social non-life consisted of World of Warcraft, studying, and masturbation (how could you possibly forget masturbation), I didn't even try to talk to anyone about this when I was an undergrad.

I missed that you were referring to student health centers specifically; because you said "This is step 1 for any and all depression treatment," I thought you meant in general.

Maybe this isn't worth mentioning since you aren't from the overly medicated US of A, but avoid taking medication as a first response. Not necessary most of the time (unless you want to be lazy about it) but thats just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by gwahir

i also forgot to list losing interest in things that normally drive me (eg theatre)

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Want to expand more on that? I know nothing about theater and I'm having trouble grasping the ways someone could lose interest. Didn't you write a play before? Is that something you want to do again? No inspiration? I'm curious.

i'm directing a show later this year (hasn't started production yet though) and normally i'd be spending a lot of time and energy on it already and it'd be exciting me all the time, only at the moment i don't really care and am only going through the motions

i am only doing what's required of me at the moment because i know at some point i WILL care again

Have you lost interest in theater before? Sounds like you're speaking from experience. If not, are you sure you aren't growing out of theater?

Just wondering if its a "can't get interested in theater because of depression" or a "depression because you can't get interested in theater." I'm sure you know that answer though.

it definitely feeds from the depression. i've lost interest in the stories i was writing, seeing my friends, attending parties, going to shows, being IN shows, any projects that interested me before... and so on. i just used theatre because it's a poignant example -- given that i'm directing a full stage musical this year, for the first time, i should be going out of my mind with excitement. and when i get out of this haze, i will be.

truthfully, i haven't completely lost interest. it fades in and out. but my "normal state" is VERY interested. it's my life, and i love it.

I would think too that having a new theater "project" to throw your energy at would kinda snap you out of it, but I suppose theres much more to it. Good luck next week trying to figure out the problem.

historically there has been nothing that can snap me out of it; if the "trigger" problem goes away, i can come out of it... otherwise it takes a good while and i just have to wait it out.

in the meantime, till my next appointment on monday, it's good to have this thread for people's thoughts and also so i can vent. i mean right now my heart's beating really hard and breathing is a little laboured but acknowledging it and mentioning it somewhere does help me keep control of the wheel, so to speak.

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Originally Posted by gwahir

i mean right now my heart's beating really hard and breathing is a little laboured but acknowledging it and mentioning it somewhere does help me keep control of the wheel, so to speak.

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those are signs of anxiety, not depression.


also, depression is not like just "being sad"; it's like being in mourning. sometimes something to take your mind off of it works, but often it makes it hard to concentrate or work on anything just like mourning over something would.

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Originally Posted by gwahir

historically there has been nothing that can snap me out of it; if the "trigger" problem goes away, i can come out of it... otherwise it takes a good while and i just have to wait it out.

in the meantime, till my next appointment on monday, it's good to have this thread for people's thoughts and also so i can vent. i mean right now my heart's beating really hard and breathing is a little laboured but acknowledging it and mentioning it somewhere does help me keep control of the wheel, so to speak.

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Do you know what the "trigger" problem is?

And yes, feel free to keep posting. I'm genuinely interested.

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Originally Posted by sycld

those are signs of anxiety, not depression.

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They are, but that doesn't mean he isn't depressed. Trying to figure out whats causing him to be depressed is likely to bring on anxiety.

I think many people who suffer from anxiety also have depression.

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Originally Posted by ozzy

They are, but that doesn't mean he isn't depressed. Trying to figure out whats causing him to be depressed is likely to bring on anxiety.

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I know, I'm just saying that because it's important to differentiate between the two conditions.

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Originally Posted by KT.

I think many people who suffer from anxiety also have depression.

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And yes this is true too.

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Originally Posted by sycld

I know, I'm just saying that because it's important to differentiate between the two conditions.

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Gotcha.

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Originally Posted by sycld

those are signs of anxiety, not depression.

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i don't have an anxiety "condition". if my heart is thumping and breathing is hard it's just because i'm particularly anxious in that moment. i can't really remember it happening any time other than the last couple of weeks and when i'm nervous about something (like i'm about to go onstage).

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Originally Posted by sycld

also, depression is not like just "being sad"; it's like being in mourning. sometimes something to take your mind off of it works, but often it makes it hard to concentrate or work on anything just like mourning over something would.

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i doubt this was directed at me but yeah. that's basically it.

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Originally Posted by ozzy

Do you know what the "trigger" problem is?

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almost always. this time it was my girlfriend's and my breakup. the breakup was fine, but there was post-breakup fallout that happened exactly the right way to trigger all my worst feelings.

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Originally Posted by gwahir

i don't have an anxiety "condition". if my heart is thumping and breathing is hard it's just because i'm particularly anxious in that moment. i can't really remember it happening any time other than the last couple of weeks and when i'm nervous about something (like i'm about to go onstage).

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Well I mean if you're getting anxiety attacks at unusual times then yeah that's I guess whatever you're calling an "anxiety condition" or whatever.

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Originally Posted by sycld

Well I mean if you're getting anxiety attacks at unusual times then yeah that's I guess whatever you're calling an "anxiety condition" or whatever.

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I didn't know the term for it. But it's the difference between being anxious and having anxiety. And I wouldn't call them attacks.

I should mention, it's very important to me not to be over-diagnosed or anything like that. Which is basically the reason seeking help has taken this long. I spent my whole younger life being a complete wuss, so I've had to learn not to overdramatise everything bad that happens to me.

Okay, whatever you want to think gwahir, if it makes things any better for you to deal with them.

All I was saying is that you seemed to express having your heart race and your breathing be difficult as symptoms of whatever you're going through. Those are clearly symptoms of anxiety. It's not like you're going to get any expensive tests done or take any medication just because you may have a bout of anxiety disorder too. If you just want to think it all comes under one label because using two labels would make you a hypocondriac I won't try to convince you otherwise.

But anxiety and depression often go hand in hand anyway.

As a further update, my GP made the diagnosis "official" and referred me to a psychiatrist who will determine whether he thinks I should have drugs or just counselling.

I do not want drugs.

This was kind of a non-update, come to think of it.

Explain to me why you don't want drugs.

I'd also like to hear that.

I think it's obvious why he wouldn't want to take drugs: negative side effects.

Also, not all anti-depression drugs work the same and it might take many months to figure out the correct combination (and in the meanwhile you might actually feel worse).

So I think avoiding drugs, if possible, and just using therapy at first is preferable.

Sounds like someone refusing chemo to me.
Ok maybe a bit of an extreme example...but still.

My understanding is that anti-depressants are like using a hammer to fix a clock. Generally speaking, unless there is something solely physiological that has damaged the neural pathways in your brain, things like cognitive therapy will achieve the same results without all the damaging side-effects and addiction to deal with afterwards.

also people on anti-depressants are weird. a few of my friends went on them and the change in their personality was distinct and almost generally unfavourable, in my eyes.

But at the same time, anti-depressants obviously have positive effects (or else no one would prescribe them).

I was on combination of anti-depressants and mood stabilizers for years. My personality did change, but for the better. There were a few times I stopped taking my medicine in those years and every time I did, I did something completely retarded.

While cognitive therapy alone might be preferable, you shouldn't feel ashamed or scared if you need to start taking anti-depressants.

(btw Gwahir, I was anon in this thread earlier.)

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Originally Posted by coqauvin

unless there is something solely physiological that has damaged the neural pathways in your brain, things like cognitive therapy will achieve the same results without all the damaging side-effects and addiction to deal with afterwards.

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This. Its better to get to the root of the problem with cognitive therapy rather than to just mask the real problem with medication.

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Originally Posted by ShitFace

Sounds like someone refusing chemo to me.
Ok maybe a bit of an extreme example...but still.

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Oh come on Shitface, I'm sure you could have used even greater hyperbole than that.

Oh wai...

Also, a girl I know is on anti-depressants. Her doctor halved the dosage to ween her off them (she had shown much improvement). She ended up breaking her parent's windows and trying to kill her boyfriend.

(I was also totally head over heels in love with this girl until I found out HOW crazy she is...)

Anti-depressants are over-used. I will not argue against that because frankly I think it's true.

However, there are still some people who really get a great deal of benefit from them.


They haven't changed my personality at all, aside from clearing my head enough that I can actually think rationally about things. However, I have known people who have told me they made them feel emotionally like zombies.

But my case was more serious than most people's. gawhir, though I'm no physician, I agree with your reticence to take anti-depressants. Try other things first.


I'll also add that the one thing I regret about the anti-depressant I'm on is that there is a chance that the withdrawal symptoms will be severe and persistent enough that I will never be able to get off of it. I don't want to be taking this for the rest of my life if I don't have to.

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Originally Posted by coqauvin

My understanding is that anti-depressants are like using a hammer to fix a clock. Generally speaking, unless there is something solely physiological that has damaged the neural pathways in your brain, things like cognitive therapy will achieve the same results without all the damaging side-effects and addiction to deal with afterwards.

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Cognitive behavioral therapy and the like are not alternatives to medication. Usually different treatments are used to compliment each other.

But again I think that gwahir should try other things aside from medication first. I agree with you on that point.

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Originally Posted by KT.

I think it's obvious why he wouldn't want to take drugs: negative side effects.

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Well, if a drug had no negative effects, everyone would want it.

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Originally Posted by coqauvin

My understanding is that anti-depressants are like using a hammer to fix a clock. Generally speaking, unless there is something solely physiological that has damaged the neural pathways in your brain, things like cognitive therapy will achieve the same results without all the damaging side-effects and addiction to deal with afterwards.

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Not necessarily true, but, sort of. It's more like... trying to win at darts by throwing live bees. Eventually you'll get it, but it'll take some luck and a lot of trial and error, and the bees will act unpredictably in the meantime.

I'm not AGAINST medication. I just don't want it for me. But, if I'm told it's what I should have, I'll definitely consider it.

OK, a summary of why I'm very hesitant to take drugs:

a) the time it would take to get the cocktail right and the emotional crap I'd go through in the meantime (my dad's been clinically depressed for 20+ years and medicated for 10, and still complications crop up about his meds; although in his case his doctor thinks his condition has changed in the last few years)
b) the loss of control over my emotions -- I know that seems weird to say, given how little I have now, but at least right now my emotions are tied in to how my life is. They're uncontrolled, but predictable.
c) the difficulty of eventually getting off them -- everyone (should) know that going cold turkey off psych meds is CATASTROPHIC (many, many people, who otherwise would not, commit suicide in the withdrawl period because of just how badly it will fuck with you) and no process of weaning off is perfect.
d) potential zombification. right now I don't have much creative impulse or work ethic, but at least I have the ability to make stuff. I'm working on this show and it's going well. I don't want to alter the chemical state of my brain and do anything that could compromise that. Right now, it's all I got.

End.

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Originally Posted by ozzy

This. Its better to get to the root of the problem with cognitive therapy rather than to just mask the real problem with medication.

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Well, this is a dangerous statement too, because you could be "masking" a problem with counselling if there is a fundamental chemical imbalance in your brain. You could get to a point where either you've had no improvement and your counsellor is out of ideas, or where it seems that you're okay, till one day you're setting up some dominoes out of boredom and a breeze blows them down when you're half way through and you charge outside into oncoming traffic.

That's a completely made up example, but you get my point.

The drugs vs. counselling dichotomy is not easily summed up and often misrepresented; as sycld said, usually it's a mixture of both.

With regards to "fundamental chemical imbalances," the brain is a unique organ in that it can restructure itself. Therapies like CBT work by breaking the malfunctioning feedback loops that have been ingrained in the brain through behavior, perception, and cognition, and replacing them with others healthier behavioral/cognitive feedback loops.

Even though pharmaceuticals are sometimes necessary, behavior-modification therapy and the like can often treat most psychological problems to a certain extent, even more extremely abnormal ones like schizophrenia.

Neuroscience is showing more and more that this distinction is false between problems mostly due to chemical imbalances vs. those mostly due to, I don't know, "abstract psychological" origins. But most people still don't get that the brain is a physical organ, and its functioning and malfunctioning are ultimately physical in nature. Again, the major difference compared to other organs is that it can reorder its structure, chemistry, and functioning from feedback it receives to a far, far larger extent.


Also, I'll add that often the difference between what's a pathological behavioral pattern and what is healthy is more a matter of whether or not the results are negative or positive. For example, there is actually far less difference than people realize between the brain chemistry of a person who is grieving normally and a person who is depressed. The difference is that the former is passing and is meant to help the person come to terms with what has happened to them, and the latter does not pass so easily and serves no really useful purpose. Depression is more or less grief triggered by something that shouldn't normally trigger grief and/or lasts far longer than usual or than is helpful to the person.

In other psychopathological news, I got confirmation about something I've always known, that those nagging thoughts that make me perform little rituals to avoid disaster are actually OCD. They're not completely and absolutely debilitating as they are for some people, but they do interfere with my life a bit and are a needless burden.

Thanks, genetics :/

what are your rituals

i am curious also

Okay... well sometimes, perhaps most of the time, they're "rituals of omission."

Like if I am doing chores and am about to go to a particular store, I'll suddenly get the thought that if I go there something terrible will happen to me. I don't know what, but just something terrible.

Or if I want to read a particular short story or essay in compilation, for instance, I might get the same feeling that something terrible will happen if I read it.

I also could be dialing in a setting on an experiment, and I'll be compelled to check it over and over and over and over and over again, lest, again, something gets really screwed up or something awful happens.

The weirdest ones are where I'm compelled to rub the sides of my thumb (the part right next to the nail facing towards the hand) against particular objects. Another one I remember but haven't experienced is the need to lift my feet off the ground if I'm sitting in a chair at home.

It's not rational, of course: I know nothing bad will happen, and I know that these thoughts arise from a disorder. However, it doesn't mitigate the anxiety over these things nor the compulsion to do these things.

If I don't give into the compulsion, I feel a great deal of anxiety and I obsess over not giving into the compulsion (hence the "OC" in "OCD"). If I do give into the intrusive thought, then usually I get bombarded with even more intrusive thoughts like these, and giving into all of them is just mentally exhausting.

It's worse when I'm tired or already keyed up about something.


Again, it's not as bad as cases where people wash their skin raw or need to take an hour to make sure the lights are off, but it can be bothersome and interfere with my life.

Interesting.

So the psychiatrist my GP referred me to is good -- clever, very observant, has a sense of humour -- but costs $300 a session (of which I get back $150 from Medicare). Jesus. He's also really quite busy, and rather in-demand. I would like to see him once a week, at least for a little while, but his cost + lack of availability makes that hard.

There are cheaper guys out there, definitely. But shopping around is awful, and every first session with a new one is essentially useless to me because we'd just be rehashing things I've gone over with others or the purposes of evaluation.

In other news, I'm finding myself less completely mental. I am still only half-functioning, and every time I think of my ex (which is all the time) I'm in pain, but at least I no longer feel like the thing to do would be to find some train tracks and lie down on them.

As often.

Just get some Buspar, jeez

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Originally Posted by gwahir

So the psychiatrist my GP referred me to is good -- clever, very observant, has a sense of humour -- but costs $300 a session (of which I get back $150 from Medicare). Jesus. He's also really quite busy, and rather in-demand. I would like to see him once a week, at least for a little while, but his cost + lack of availability makes that hard.

There are cheaper guys out there, definitely. But shopping around is awful, and every first session with a new one is essentially useless to me because we'd just be rehashing things I've gone over with others or the purposes of evaluation.

In other news, I'm finding myself less completely mental. I am still only half-functioning, and every time I think of my ex (which is all the time) I'm in pain, but at least I no longer feel like the thing to do would be to find some train tracks and lie down on them.

As often.

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That's great that you are making progress. If you like your current psychiatrist, I think you should stick with him (assuming you can afford it). I've seen a few different psychiatrists (multiple visits per psych), and the right person can make all the difference. I think this would be especially true for you since you are hesitant to take medication.

Good luck.

So, I figured why not give you guys an update?

Still seeing my guy once a week. Thankfully, the sessions are now A LOT cheaper, which is a plus -- if nothing else, at least now I don't spend the whole session going "this better be worth $300, this better be worth $300..." and so it's a bit freer.

However I feel, more and more, like my doctor is nothing more than the boy with his finger in the dyke. Sometimes it seems like he's shining a light on every neurosis I have, one by one, and bringing me closer to being at peace with myself, but the sheer volume of my psychological baggage -- which I didn't even know I had until about two months ago -- is overwhelming. I can't adequately express how much I hate the inside of my own head. I feel like I will never be able to function as a person.

The doc thinks I'm not "ill"; that is, he doesn't think I have a chemical imbalance or a bipolarity or anything which would require medication (though there are meds that could function as "painkillers", essentially). I agree with him. But the fact is, I'm really fucking depressed, and the fact of it not being the fault of silly chemicals just reinforces how shit-fucked I am upstairs and, since there's no cure for "sad", makes me feel like I'm never, ever going to be "happy", outside of a few fleeting, trivial moments.

Sure, I think sometimes, maybe I'm just still flapping about in breakup land. But the fact remains that I'm terrible at relationships (romantic and platonic) and don't consider myself an interesting/talented/attractive/likeable/worthwhile person. That's been the way for years. It's not breakup land. It's life.

And I just don't want to be here.

/angsty vent

just curious:

why doesn't he think you have a chemical imbalance? I mean how would a doctor even know that without doing some sort of test?

(edit: does he think you have situational depression?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gwahir

Still seeing my guy once a week. Thankfully, the sessions are now A LOT cheaper, which is a plus -- if nothing else, at least now I don't spend the whole session going "this better be worth $300, this better be worth $300..." and so it's a bit freer.

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I'm not going to read any further because this one paragraph out of context is amazing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KT.

just curious:

why doesn't he think you have a chemical imbalance? I mean how would a doctor even know that without doing some sort of test?

(edit: does he think you have situational depression?)

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Yes, in essence. The periodicity of my depressive moods, and the fact that they are precipitated by and connected to actual events and feelings suggest it's not chemical or biological depression. If it was, I'd feel depressed sometimes even when things are good, which, in general, I'm not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by simonj

I'm not going to read any further because this one paragraph out of context is amazing.

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Heh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by simonj

I'm not going to read any further because this one paragraph out of context is amazing.

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LOL.

Do you have any problems sleeping at night due to worrying or other types of thoughts racing through your brain?
Get a prescription for Trazodone, it won't screw you up like many anti-depressants and you'll sleep like a rock (I've had some pretty vivid dreams on it, but no nightmares personally which is a listed possible side effect).
25-50mg would be a regular dose for use as a sleep aid, if you used it more for general depression you might take 150mg spread throughout the day.

It's prescribed usually for mild depression and/or problems sleeping, however I've used it occasionally for off-label reasons. Mild but effective stuff.

A sleep dose would be easycakes to quit cold turkey if you ever wanted, I dunno about the larger depression doses, those may require a more gradual withdrawal. I'm not a fan of medication to solve problems either.



Thought probably impossible, to be "new-agey", if you could find a doc that uses it (unlikely) I think you'd be a perfect candidate for MDMA therapy sessions.

The only problem with my sleep is that even when I get a solid 10 hour block of it I feel like I haven't had enough.

I get plenty of sleep. But I'm always exhausted.

Which is, unsurprisingly, another symptom of depression.

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Originally Posted by Rick Scarf

It's prescribed usually for mild depression and/or problems sleeping, however I've used it occasionally for off-label reasons.

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http://rickscarf.ytmnd.com/

Also worth mentioning:

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Originally Posted by gwahir

The periodicity of my depressive moods, and the fact that they are precipitated by and connected to actual events and feelings suggest it's not chemical or biological depression.

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This is why I have gone untreated for so, so long. Until very recently, my perception was "it's only depression if it's chemical, and you don't go and get treated just because you are sad". Then my friend committed suicide.

Like I said, "chemical and biological" depression vs. "normal" depression are really just the same thing.


As far as I'm aware, the only real difference is that one is precipitated by events that are expected to do it, goes away after a reasonable period of time, and isn't so severe that the person, oh say, considers violence against themselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sycld

Like I said, "chemical and biological" depression vs. "normal" depression are really just the same thing.


As far as I'm aware, the only real difference is that one is precipitated by events that are expected to do it, goes away after a reasonable period of time, and isn't so severe that the person, oh say, considers violence against themselves.

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Severity doesn't come into the difference. You can have very mild chemical depression, or incredibly severe psychological depression.

The difference is that you can't really manage chemical depression without medication. I mean there are coping mechanisms, and you can learn to live with it, but you can't do anything to stop spontaneous depressive periods. Psychological depression, as you say, is caused by stuff. I mean you can still wake up one day depressed, where you were fine the day before, but it'll be attached to stuff going on in your head -- your baggage, basically.

The difference to me is that I feel like a shmuck for having such a bird's nest of psychic issues and coming so undone over, essentially, a break-up. At least I can feel like, someday, the mess can all be mopped up, and I'll learn to porter my own baggage -- even if I don't know how that'll ever happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gwahir

However I feel, more and more, like my doctor is nothing more than the boy with his finger in the dyke.

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Dike.

I had to double-take at this initial sentence.

Anyway here's some thoughts.

You said you're seeing a psychiatrist. I know it's a pain in the ass, but have you considered seeing a psychotherapist? Someone who's there purely for talk therapy? Maybe all the worrying about, "is it chemical imbalance, is it not chemical imbalance, is it or isn't it" would be eased if you were able to talk with someone who is simply there for you to talk out how you really feel and help improve your quality of life.

I say this after I read this quote:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwahir

the sheer volume of my psychological baggage -- which I didn't even know I had until about two months ago

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Like you, I'm opposed to drugs. I won't even take an aspirin if I can help it. But back in college, I was seeing a sports psychologist after I went into a depression in my junior year. She helped me out a lot by letting me talk out how I was feeling about certain issues I was having, all the while giving me tools I needed to deal with the stressors on my own. This was personally the right way for me to go. I may be bias, but I think psychiatry tends to rehash certain issues over and over without giving an individual tools to make it better. (A friend of mine was diagnosed bipolar, put on meds, and sees a psychiatrist once a week. That was nearly a decade ago and she isn't any better.)

I know that it's different for everyone, and no two cases of depression are exactly the same, but it may be something to consider. And it seems that you acknowledge you're having issues and acknowledge it's not the "right" or "correct" way to be. Regardless of what you may say, the light at the end of your tunnel always stays lit, even though it's very dim at times.

Some people go through life simply happy in their misery, pay money for pills and psychiatrists, just so they have another thing to bitch about. You don't seem that way.

There's always a bit of shittasticness in life. Hell, I'm going through a mild depression myself (because of nicotine withdrawal). But that's just life. Humans are amazingly resilient creatures. I once went through a job loss, a knee surgery, and a break up, all of which happened in a 10-day period. (He broke up with me over a text message for chrissake.) I said, "Okay, if this is the worst I can ever feel, I should be lucky, and if I can get out of this, I can get out of anything." Being able to bounce back, especially if you feel like you did it on your own, can give you a new lease on life and that positive outlook you need to carry on.

Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gina

Dike.

I had to double-take at this initial sentence.

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Nope, both spellings are correct.

Anyway, the psych I'm seeing hasn't made much of a big deal about chemical/biological/psychological/whatever. It's just how he categorises things. He said in our first session that he agreed drugs weren't the way to go with me, and what we're doing now is psychotherapy. He's very good, so I don't have any desire to shop around.

I agree with you, basically. Heh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gina

Like you, I'm opposed to drugs. I won't even take an aspirin if I can help it.

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I love how everyone says this with some ridiculous sense of accomplishment. Here's a tip, nitwits; 99.9999999999999% of the drugs out there are just copying or modifying what your body is already doing.

Quote:

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his is why I have gone untreated for so, so long. Until very recently, my perception was "it's only depression if it's chemical, and you don't go and get treated just because you are sad". Then my friend committed suicide.

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You're not sick, you faggot; you're just learning that life is hard sometimes.
Holy shit, you people. No wonder everything is horrible


Peace, I'm out!

sweet thanks bro

did he just leave?

hey guys we finally did it!

dear santa: what i'd really like this year is to have enough security not to worry that my friends were going to hang themselves drive themselves off cliffs every time they post a despondent facebook status. (note: this worry also applies to me but hey if you wanted to do anything about that as well it'd just be gravy)

love

jem

Sometimes my friends post statuses that make me think they're depressed but it usually just turns out they have terrible taste in music.

dear santa please make gwahir smile

love

ken

aw thanks faesce i just saw this and i think christmas came early for ol' gwahir this year

dear santa:

all i want for christmas is for you to deny everyone else's christmas wishes

love

dave

dear santa

give me a dream, make him the cutest that i've ever seen

love

d

ps kill my enemies while you're at it

pretty sure father xmas doesn't kill people for your present

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Originally Posted by ShitFace

pretty sure father xmas doesn't kill people for your present

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You know it's a tough economy when even Santa Claus has to outsource to China

He does on Futurama

don't believe everything you see on tv atomic

You're right...