Building a (relatively) cheap gaming rig

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10-06-2011, 09:17 PM
sycld

Building a (relatively) cheap gaming rig

Here are the three components I've confirmed I'll use:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0353925
Thermaltake Armor A30 Gaming Cube mATX Computer Case

Usually cases are among the last parts one chooses, but this goes first since it's a unique small form factor case that will determine to some extent the other components. Though it'll restrict me to mATX motherboards (well any mini tower would anyway), it can accommodate full-sized graphics cards. As all gaming rigs should, it has a series of fans in the case to help keep it cool.

It's damned expensive, but I really prefer this over a more typically sized mini tower.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0354589
Intel Core i5 2500K LGA 1155 Boxed Processor (3.3 GHz)

It seems that the i5 2500K CPU is the best of the series in terms of performance vs. price, as it performs about as well as the cheapest i7. And I can get it for $179.99 from Micro Center.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130569
MSI H67MA-E35 (B3) LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

A pretty inexpensive, simple, but seemingly well-performing motherboard. I'm getting it for $69.99.

Of the main components, that leaves: the harddrive, the graphics card, the power supply, and the optical drive. Obviously I'm stuck with Windows 7, which I can get OEM for $100.

Any suggestions? My goal is to keep price balanced with performance. Ideally, I'd like to keep it around $750 or less (OS aside), but I guess if I had to, I could go up to $900.

I should add that I want this PC to last me for a few years. So even though I am trying to not be too extravagant, I would prefer technology that's at least high end mid-range, if not high-range.

EDIT: Here's a more specific question: is it worth saving $30 to down grade from i5 2500k (3.3 GHz, 6MB L3 cache) to i5 2400 (3.1 GHz, no L3 cache)? Yes, the 2400 doesn't have an unlocked multiplier. Though I could possibly see myself overclocking at some point, I'm not completely sure I would even bother.
10-07-2011, 05:46 PM
Nick2.1

Is the 900 bucks including what you added? Do you need a monitor, keyboard, mouse or speakers?

If you plan to overclock, then a H61 mobo isn't for a 2500k unless you plan to upgrade to a P67 or Z68 board in the future(being actual overclocking boards). The 2500k usually goes for about 200-220 so you are getting a deal, I wouldn't suggest a 2400 over it.
10-07-2011, 06:09 PM
Nick2.1

Optical Drive

Hard Drive

Video Card

PSU + Memory Combo

Comes with 45 bucks of rebates which brought the total price down to 545 after shipping and taxes, making the total I added up from your stuff = $905 after rebates.

The video card can be overclocked pretty well, lasting you a while.

EDIT:

PSU

Memory

Use promo code EMCJKKC49 for an extra 15 buck off with this other PSU. Total after shipping, taxes and rebates was $526, bringing the total to $886.
10-07-2011, 06:56 PM
sycld

Re: Building a (relatively) cheap gaming rig

Quote:

Is the 900 bucks including what you added? Do you need a monitor, keyboard, mouse or speakers?

Includes above, but don't need keyboard, mouse, or monitor. I forgot about speakers, but for now I'd be OK with some cheap-ass, functional speakers (even some sets with a seperate subwoofer can be pretty inexpensive).

Quote:

If you plan to overclock, then a H61 mobo isn't for a 2500k unless you plan to upgrade to a P67 or Z68 board in the future(being actual overclocking boards). The 2500k usually goes for about 200-220 so you are getting a deal, I wouldn't suggest a 2400 over it.

Yeah, I know about the super deal on the chip. This is why I love Micro Center!

It's a H67, but it doesn't make a difference. Okay, thanks--I guess I won't be overclocking then. There's some weird speed booster thing on MTC mobos which I don't quite know how it works. But eh I'm fine with baseline performance.

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10-07-2011, 07:01 PM
Nick2.1

Well, I hope everything I posted helped. In the future you might want to go with a mATX p67 or z68 with a after market CPU cooler, stock speeds on a 2500k will last for a while, so you won't see any improvement OCing right now.
10-08-2011, 12:48 AM
sycld

Re: Building a (relatively) cheap gaming rig

Quote:

Well, I hope everything I posted helped. In the future you might want to go with a mATX p67 or z68 with a after market CPU cooler, stock speeds on a 2500k will last for a while, so you won't see any improvement OCing right now.

Yeah it did; I got interrupted responding to your posts.

OK so for a while now I wouldn't get much benefit from OC'ing now, but for the more distant future I should get a P67 or Z68 to OC?

Also that video card is a behemoth! Honestly I'm bit sure there's enough room for it in the case. And it's a bit more than I was thinking about spending in the video card alone. I have a candidate in mind but I'm not at home so I don't have the model # with me. I like the other suggestions and will compare them to what I was looking at

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10-08-2011, 01:23 AM
Nick2.1

Yeah, it has it's own turbo boost when you need it, but a quad core 3.3GHz is more then any game needs atm. Yes, it's a triple slot card, it has a big cooling solution so you can OC the crap out of it and it won't overheat. Keep me posted about what you had in mind an I'll let you know what I know and have heard. I personally use dual AMD 6870s.
10-08-2011, 11:56 AM
sycld

I was thinking of something along these lines:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500194

It seems to run really hot though.
10-08-2011, 02:19 PM
Nick2.1

That's pretty entry level for gaming too.
10-08-2011, 02:34 PM
Nick2.1

This card is a few bucks cheaper and overclocks to about the performance of a stock GTX 580.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125384

EDIT: Smaller too.

EDIT2: Also, you get batman for free.
10-08-2011, 02:38 PM
sycld

Re: Building a (relatively) cheap gaming rig

Quote:

That's pretty entry level for gaming too.

Hmm... I see... I thought this was a relatively high-end GPU though? I suppose I was mistaken. GPU and memory (both speed and amount) aside, what else do you look for in a graphics card?

Also, I was thinking that if I had to, I could always get a graphics card a bit closer to midrange compared to the rest of the hardware, and upgrade that component alone (maybe along with the motherboard) after hardware has evolved a bit. But if this is merely an entry-level card, I think I'm want something a bit better.

Also, call me clueless, but I think it's neat how Intel is integrating so many functions into the CPU itself, like the north bridge and a GPU. Granted, I don't expect to get great performance out of I integrated graphics, but at least I'll still be able to use my computer if something happens to the graphics card, even if the mobo doesn't have integrated graphics :p

EDIT:

Quote:

This card is a few bucks cheaper and overclocks to about the performance of a stock GTX 580.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125384

EDIT: Smaller too.

EDIT2: Also, you get batman for free.

Just saw this. Thanks, that's a bit more what I'm looking for, but you don't suppose that I can get something that'll be mid- to high-range for a few years and only $100 to $250-ish?

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10-08-2011, 02:47 PM
Nick2.1

With Nvidia cards, you want to look at the processor cores. A GTX 550 Ti has 192 cores, a GTX 560 has 336 cores, 560 Ti = 384 cores, 570 = 480 cores, 580 = 512 cores. Clock speeds and the amount of memory don't provide performance boost considering they are different GPUs.

Intel's integrated GPU is getting better, but will probably never compare to dedicated GPUs.
10-08-2011, 03:29 PM
Nick2.1

something like this maybe, this is pretty mid-range.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133380
10-08-2011, 05:22 PM
sycld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick2.1

With Nvidia cards, you want to look at the processor cores. A GTX 550 Ti has 192 cores, a GTX 560 has 336 cores, 560 Ti = 384 cores, 570 = 480 cores, 580 = 512 cores. Clock speeds and the amount of memory don't provide performance boost considering they are different GPUs.

Intel's integrated GPU is getting better, but will probably never compare to dedicated GPUs.

Ah ok.

Also, yeah, the Intel integrated graphics would just be as a back up in case something catastrophic happens to the graphics card :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick2.1

something like this maybe, this is pretty mid-range.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133380

Hmmm I see, I see. Thanks. So 384 processor cores on a GTX series GPU (or AMD equivalent) would be middle of the road, and 480 or 512 processor cores would be high-end?

So... out of curiosity, if you'll humor me: what do you think of this? http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0354216 AMD Radeon 6850 with 1 gig GDDR5 GRAM. Frankly, I'd prefer an NVIDIA GPU...
10-08-2011, 05:27 PM
Nick2.1

Ummm, not quite, those cores for a GTX 500 series is correct, but AMD uses a different architecture. I don't suggest AMD simply because of personal experience with bad drivers that they've put out, at the end of this year, I'm switching to intel/nvidia build.

Edit: I had a 6850 and it's about 25% slower then the 560 Ti I posted.
10-08-2011, 05:46 PM
sycld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick2.1

With Nvidia cards, you want to look at the processor cores. A GTX 550 Ti has 192 cores, a GTX 560 has 336 cores, 560 Ti = 384 cores, 570 = 480 cores, 580 = 512 cores. Clock speeds and the amount of memory don't provide performance boost considering they are different GPUs.

Intel's integrated GPU is getting better, but will probably never compare to dedicated GPUs.

*sigh* I figured you'd say something like this.

I guess there's no such thing as a free lunch.. aside from that Intel i5 2500K's from Micro Center. I don't know how they can mark it down so low.
10-08-2011, 05:52 PM
Nick2.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycld

*sigh* I figured you'd say something like this.

I guess there's no such thing as a free lunch.. aside from that Intel i5 2500K's from Micro Center. I don't know how they can mark it down so low.

It sells more then any other CPU right now, so there is a big profit for marking it down a little bit lower to make it more affordable. I'm sure they've made a lot of sales so far.
10-08-2011, 05:58 PM
sycld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick2.1

It sells more then any other CPU right now, so there is a big profit for marking it down a little bit lower to make it more affordable. I'm sure they've made a lot of sales so far.

True. But all the Sandy Bridge CPU's are marked really low at Micro Center, and I haven't seen prices nearly that low anywhere else.

Well no matter. I think I know what I'm looking for in a video card now, and I can anticipate how much it'll cost. Thanks.

I may just return that mobo I'm getting from Newegg and get all the parts from Micro Center. They have a deal where if you buy all the parts for a PC from them, they will give a blanket warranty for the entire PC, as though it were pre-assembled.
10-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Nick2.1

Yeah, I wish I had a Microcenter down here in San Diego, it would be my second home.
10-09-2011, 10:19 AM
ShitFace

Sycld, could I recommend that you get the same GPU as me.

$269, a little over your budget, but not by much. It will max out all games, will be good for a few years to come and it's very silent.

1408 processor cores.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161372
10-09-2011, 12:22 PM
sycld

Re: Building a (relatively) cheap gaming rig

Quote:

Yeah, I wish I had a Microcenter down here in San Diego, it would be my second home.

Yup. But it seems that most equivalent parts are slightly more than the ones you showed from Newegg.

A store rep and I went through the local store's inventory, and I'm going to get this mobo instead. The quote was fixed at $75, and it looks like the quote is valid until 10/13:

www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0364087

That's a damn good deal, and Gigabyte is a reliable manufacturer.

I bought the case from them (only 1 left in stock, nearly same as if bought online when considering s&h). I'll also get the mobo and CPU from them, return the crap mobo to Newegg, and get the other components you listed from Newegg.

Quote:

Sycld, could I recommend that you get the same GPU as me.

$269, a little over your budget, but not by much. It will max out all games, will be good for a few years to come and it's very silent.

1408 processor cores.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161372

Nice! What about this Nick?

Finally, one more question: how do the mobile versions compare to their desktop counterparts? There are some Alienware laptops I was curious about (my best friend has one), and their nominal specs are similar to the ones I would have in this desktop, except they're mobile versions crammed in a laptop chassis, and I can't imagine that they could be as powerful components since the heat would melt the thing if they were...

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10-09-2011, 01:13 PM
ShitFace

Alienware are ridiculously overpriced, and gaming laptops in general are pretty overpriced.

You'd be better off building a desktop.
10-09-2011, 02:03 PM
Nick2.1

Mobile versions of cards are about 50% the power or lower compared to the desktop versions. I don't trust AMD/ATi anymore, I've used them since the 3000 generation and when I had Nvidia, I had less driver problems. It's why I don't suggest them. A lot of people like the 6950, especially the ones you can unlock to 6970s(not the one posted). The 560 Ti is about 10% weaker then then 6950 at stock, but I believe they are about equal when you max overclock the both of them.

Also, shitface, AMD processor cores are much weaker then nvidia, so more of them don't make them better.
10-09-2011, 02:49 PM
ShitFace

Where did you read that?
I was always under the impression that AMD were more powerful, but had shitty drivers.
10-09-2011, 03:06 PM
sycld

Re: Building a (relatively) cheap gaming rig

Quote:

Where did you read that?
I was always under the impression that AMD were more powerful, but had shitty drivers.

Honestly, I kinda got this impression about AMD cards too, butit could just be that regardless of overall performance, the individual cores are not as powerful. This would make sense since the highest # of cores you can get on an nvidia card is something like in the 500's. And nvidia's highest end GPU would not be that far from AMD's.

But I didn't notice that was an ATi graphics card :p Frankly I'm like nvidia cards more too, but so many people seem to think it's more a matter of taste and the price is do much lower that I might consider it if its GPU is equivalent to the nvidia ones we were considering.

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10-09-2011, 03:41 PM
sycld

Re: Building a (relatively) cheap gaming rig

GAH, that graphics card Shitface showed requires a fucking PCIe 2.1 x 16, but the mobo I was considering only has a 2.0... I'll look around a bit more....

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10-09-2011, 03:45 PM
Nick2.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShitFace

Where did you read that?
I was always under the impression that AMD were more powerful, but had shitty drivers.

No, the most powerful single GPU is a 580.
10-09-2011, 03:47 PM
Nick2.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycld

GAH, that graphics card Shitface showed requires a fucking PCIe 2.1 x 16, but the mobo I was considering only has a 2.0... I'll look around a bit more....

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I'm pretty sure it would still work.
10-09-2011, 04:00 PM
sponge

I've only read like half this thread but I will confirm that the gtx 570 kicks ass I have this one

it's a rev2 pcb so it's a bit shorter than the original 570, I'm using a relatively tiny midtower and it fits with acceptable temps

also many evga boards come with a lifetime warranty but you have to register for it within 30 days of purchase, warnings are printed to this effect in loads of places on the docs, box and board itself but retards be stupid
10-09-2011, 08:16 PM
Nick2.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by sponge

I've only read like half this thread but I will confirm that the gtx 570 kicks ass I have this one

it's a rev2 pcb so it's a bit shorter than the original 570, I'm using a relatively tiny midtower and it fits with acceptable temps

also many evga boards come with a lifetime warranty but you have to register for it within 30 days of purchase, warnings are printed to this effect in loads of places on the docs, box and board itself but retards be stupid

EVGA also has a step up program. It's pretty nice. This is the card I'm going to be getting soon, might get a second one not long after.
10-11-2011, 11:24 AM
sycld

Okay so here's my final selections:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182132

I really need to use a modular power supply because there's little room in the case, and unfortunately I didn't see any good bundle deals with modular PSU's. (There was a Thermaltake one which outputted a higher wattage, also was 80 Plus Bronze, and same price after rebate, but the reviews made it seem unreliable. Rosewill is a reliable manufacturer of PSU's.)

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0347304

Seems like the best deal on memory

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0365152

Same price and model as the one you suggested from Newegg, but I can just buy it from the store.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161372

Yeah, I'm going with the AMD card here. I'll take the risk, considering the extreme price differential.

It's at Micro Center for only $10 more after rebate, but since I'm getting the PSU from Newegg, I might as well get this from them too.
10-11-2011, 02:38 PM
Nick2.1

Well I hope you don't get buyers remorse from buying AMD like I did.
10-11-2011, 02:42 PM
ShitFace

I doubt it, I have that exact card and it's excellent.

Although you might want to check if you can fit it in that case though sycld.
10-11-2011, 03:00 PM
sycld

Re: Building a (relatively) cheap gaming rig

Quote:

Well I hope you don't get buyers remorse from buying AMD like I did.

Me too; I have lingering doubts.

BTW I got a $75 Z68 Gigabyte mobo from Microcenter (partly discounted from bundle with processor and partly discounted from rebate). I already installed it into the case. When the one I mentioned first in this thread comes, I'm sending it back for a refund.

Quote:

I doubt it, I have that exact card and it's excellent.

Although you might want to check if you can fit it in that case though sycld.

Oh yeah, that won't be a problem. The case can accomidate boards up to 343 mm in length (13.7" ).

The case is smaller than a mini-tower but not by THAT much. The other unusual feature it has is its longer rather than taller design, which makes it easier to transport while keeping the thing oriented topside-up (not that this feature is meaningful for me).

If you want to get a sense of its size and see its design, here's an extensive review (2nd picture has a liter Coke bottle for comparison).

I also really like its modular design. It will be a bit cramped when installing components, but the modularity of the component compartments will help. The one thing that sortof pisses me off is they made it from steel. Though aluminum is weaker, I would've appreciated its much lower weight. As it is, the case weighs around 14 lbs.

OH, one more question: I have 1 5.25" component bay. I would REALLY like to put at least functional speakers made to fit in a 3.5b cage... anything like that exists?

EDIT: Okay, found it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16836150072

Sound quality seems to be "wretched"; I'm not looking for 3D Surround Sound here, but I would like something a little better than this... I guess I'll look around more, or maybe use some clip on laptop speakers like:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16836121051

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10-11-2011, 05:06 PM
Nick2.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShitFace

I doubt it, I have that exact card and it's excellent.

Although you might want to check if you can fit it in that case though sycld.

The card isn't the problem, amd has a good bit of driver problems. Rage came out a few days ago and it was literally unplayable because of horrible drivers that they put out especially for rage.
10-11-2011, 06:04 PM
ShitFace

Yeah the drivers aren't perfect, but it's not like that happens with loads of games. When it does there are usually hotfixes released pretty quickly too.

Only game I've had problems like that on is the witcher 2, but that works great now.
I don't find it to be that much of a problem tbh, it's a small inconvenience when it does happen.

edit: also i heard rage was just a shit port
10-11-2011, 06:53 PM
sycld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick2.1

The card isn't the problem, amd has a good bit of driver problems. Rage came out a few days ago and it was literally unplayable because of horrible drivers that they put out especially for rage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShitFace

Yeah the drivers aren't perfect, but it's not like that happens with loads of games. When it does there are usually hotfixes released pretty quickly too.

Only game I've had problems like that on is the witcher 2, but that works great now.
I don't find it to be that much of a problem tbh, it's a small inconvenience when it does happen.

edit: also i heard rage was just a shit port

Yeah, this is why I'm worried. I see problems with AMD graphics cards so often. But we shall see.

These two mothas look like the best options for 5.25" bay speaker units:

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/ac...0_detail.html#
http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/ac...0s_detail.html

Even if they are crap speakers, they're at least visually appealing. It looks like they also have potentially as good sound as I can get in a 5.25" bay component.

Only problem is I don't think they're manufactured anymore, so it'll be hard to locate a reseller that still has them in stock. One Microcenter location has one of the non-Ace units (the first link), but it's far away from me, so I'm going to see if my local Micro Center can get it shipped over to them for me...
10-11-2011, 07:22 PM
Nick2.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShitFace

Yeah the drivers aren't perfect, but it's not like that happens with loads of games. When it does there are usually hotfixes released pretty quickly too.

Only game I've had problems like that on is the witcher 2, but that works great now.
I don't find it to be that much of a problem tbh, it's a small inconvenience when it does happen.

edit: also i heard rage was just a shit port

No, it was supposed to work properly but amd had such shitty support for OpenGL.
10-11-2011, 07:27 PM
Nick2.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycld

Yeah, this is why I'm worried. I see problems with AMD graphics cards so often. But we shall see.

These two mothas look like the best options for 5.25" bay speaker units:

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/ac...0_detail.html#
http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/ac...0s_detail.html

Even if they are crap speakers, they're at least visually appealing. It looks like they also have potentially as good sound as I can get in a 5.25" bay component.

Only problem is I don't think they're manufactured anymore, so it'll be hard to locate a reseller that still has them in stock. One Microcenter location has one of the non-Ace units (the first link), but it's far away from me, so I'm going to see if my local Micro Center can get it shipped over to them for me...

They might not be manufactured anymore cause no one bought them or they were shit. I wouldn't trust a 5.25" bay speaker box.
10-11-2011, 07:50 PM
sycld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick2.1

They might not be manufactured anymore cause no one bought them or they were shit. I wouldn't trust a 5.25" bay speaker box.

Yeah. Like I said, if they are SO crappy that I have to use external speakers, at least they are aesthetically pleasing. I would love the blue LED backlit ones, especially since they go so well with my case, but the ones without the front grill and backlighting look good as well.

But these are definitely the best made 5.25" bay speaker units I can find.

And they're relatively inexpensive, so even if they don't work out well, at least I'm not wasting TOO much money. The single one left in inventory at Micro Center goes for $13.
10-11-2011, 08:31 PM
Atmosfear

Am I missing something? Why would you put glorified laptop speakers on a desktop?
10-11-2011, 08:46 PM
sycld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

Am I missing something? Why would you put glorified laptop speakers on a desktop?

Because I have one more 5.25" bay to fill which I would just leave blank otherwise, I want this PC to take up as little space as possible, they look good even if I just end up using external speakers and NEVER use them, they're inexpensive, and it's possible that I may want to use my PC at another location so having built in speakers may reduce the bulk I would have to transport?

And the #1 reason to buy them:

they're a bit of a novelty.
10-11-2011, 09:20 PM
Atmosfear

Different strokes I guess... Can't imagine I would do that myself but ok.
10-12-2011, 02:17 PM
ShitFace

I have to say I would probably just leave the bay blank, it looks neater.
Unless I could find one with decent sound. It would be nice to have built in speakers, clean desk etc.
10-17-2011, 06:33 PM
sycld

I have to say, the 5.25" bay speakers are not that bad. The bass sucks, and there's a barely aiudible bit of pickup, probably from the fans, but otherwise the sound is clear, undistorted, and surprisingly loud. I mean I genuinely did not expect the speakers to be as powerful as they are.

So I'm satisfied with them. I could see supplementing them with a subwoofer, but otherwise I really have no reason to use external speakers.

I have everything put together and running now except for the wireless adapter and graphics card, both of which I've yet to purchase. Installed Windows 7. Had some problems with strip of serial molex connectors to the power supply, but found the problem was a loose pin in one of them (god molex connectors are crude, though effective), and now what all I have is working.

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