Self defense calibers

We had a good conversation going on in AI, but we needed to keep that thread on topic.

What caliber and gun do you prefer for self defense? Does your opinion change if you would have to carry that gun around hidden?

For home defense I have my XD45 and my Taurus PT101 in .45 ACP and .40 S&W, respectively.

But as far as carrying them, both are way too big. The XD has a long ass grip, and the Taurus is too fat and heavy. Open carry they would be fine though.

I sold my Kel-Tec P11 in 9mm, which was my car gun. So now Im left w/o a small carry gun.

Right now Im looking at either a Glock 26 (9mm) or a Ruger LCR. Im starting to lean to the G26 though.

Well, until the hammer spring broke the Kel-Tec P32 was my carry everywhere piece. Admittedly, I've gotten lazy after twelve years of concealed and open carry. Depending on conditions, I will occasionally strap on the Para or stick the P11 in a pocket. One of those (or the Beretta) goes in the truck regardless of what I am carrying on my person.

I confirmed that I can buy a pistol down here with military orders, and also that the local police supply store honors Glock's law enforcement sales policy. Still looking for a S&W LEO dealer. If I go with Glock it will be an impulse decision between the subcompacts, namely the 26,27,29,30 or 33. The dealer gets Glocks in randomly, so when I get the $400 (26 or 27 w/regular sights) to $550 (29 or 30 w/night sights) I'll just see what's in stock. If I go S&W it'll be an M&P model, I'll have to decide between their revolvers and the compact autos.

I also have my sights set on getting a Taurus 85 Ultralite. I was considering another .357 but decided to go with .38 for the smaller frame. The Judge is still on my list as well but would serve as a car gun and rarely, if ever, get concealed.


My only rule as to caliber is "have a gun". If I walk out the door knowing I am going to get into a firefight, I'd take a shotgun or rifle. It feels great having the weight of the Para on my side and knowing that fourteen rounds of .45 are at the ready. That said, the P32 works great for what it does, despite its tiny cartridge. It rides in the pocket and gives me peace of mind.

fm why are you interested in the G33 and not the G32? They are both 357sig why do you want the subcompact?

I'm guessing for CC. I'd like to get something like a 3 inch 1911 for CC. Just need to find one I can afford.

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Originally Posted by Atmosfear

fm why are you interested in the G33 and not the G32? They are both 357sig why do you want the subcompact?

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Originally Posted by Anonymous D

I'm guessing for CC. I'd like to get something like a 3 inch 1911 for CC. Just need to find one I can afford.

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Of course, I am not sold on the subcompacts. They are better suited for concealed carry, but I effectively conceal a compact pistol (the Para) quite often. As I stated earlier, if I go Glock it will be an impulse buy. Once I have the money in hand, if they have something I like I'll get it. Besides size and caliber they all share design features and are known for their reliability, making the decision much easier than trying to select other pistols with a myriad of actions (DAO, DA, decocker, safety, etc). In short, the compacts are not out of the running. Just need to get the money together and see what the store has in stock.

Anony, stay away from short 1911s, they tend to suffer timing problems and other reliability issues. That's not a design that adapts well to short slides/barrels.

Really? I have never heard anything about that. Got any links to stories about the problems? I'd like to check it out.

I own a G27 and I'm quite pleased with it. As far as I've been able to tell, it comes with tritium (LWS flashback!) sights standard. I bought it at Cabelas and they had no such thing as a non-trit-sight model of the G27.

ALL I READ WAS TRITIUM

Tritium glows bruh.

It all depends on what you are defending yourself from and where you are doing it. For bear country nothing beats a 12 guage pump loaded with 1oz slugs.

For personal carry protection from two legged pretadors I like the time tested 158 grain SWCHP FBI load from a .38 caliber revolver. It's easier to get on target for a followup than a magnum. A .44 special or .45 Colt with a Keith load is also a good choice.

If my job included breaking down drug dealers doors I would want one of the plastic fantasic bottom feeders in an easy to shoot but good man stopper like .45acp or .40 S&W. I believe the 9mm to weak and the .357 sig and 10mm too hard to control for a fast second shot.

This opinion and a buck fifty will get you a cup-o-coffee.

6mm keeps the insects at bay for me.

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Originally Posted by crunker

6mm keeps the insects at bay for me.

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6MM ?

Okay, I'm looking at possibly getting a Kimber Tactical II, either Pro or Ultra. I want to know though, is the pro going to be a pain in the ass for concealed carry? I want it mainly for home protection but I will be carrying it occasionally too.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous D

6MM ?

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Airsoft caliber. =\

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Originally Posted by Shinysides

Okay, I'm looking at possibly getting a Kimber Tactical II, either Pro or Ultra. I want to know though, is the pro going to be a pain in the ass for concealed carry? I want it mainly for home protection but I will be carrying it occasionally too.

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Full size 1911s are generally too big for CC IMO.

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Originally Posted by crunker

Airsoft caliber. =\

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Oh lol.

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Originally Posted by crunker

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Originally Posted by Anonymous D

6 MM ?

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Airsoft caliber. =\

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Its also a Remington .244, loaded with 75 grain bullets for varmints and 90 grain for deer. So I guess with what your protecting yourself against.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_Remington

I'm not a big fan of the smaller cartridges. If I was going to use a revolver I would want a .357 mag. For semi auto I like the .45 acp. I have heard good and bads about the .40 and would consider it. I wouldn't go down to 9mm or .380 unless it was a backup gun. I'm just not a 9mm fan but i'd be ok with carrying a 9mm uzi, i'm sure 30 rounds would get it done.

As far as a carry gun I can hide my pt145 pretty easy. It is a little thick but they had to put those 10+1 rounds somewhere.

I have my XD45 that holds 13+1 rounds, that thing is unconcealable... unless you are wearing heavy winter gear. Its an offensive handgun.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous D

I have my XD45 that holds 13+1 rounds, that thing is unconcealable... unless you are wearing heavy winter gear. Its an offensive handgun.

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My Para holds the same amount of ammo but is easily concealed with the right holster/clothing combo. A lot has to do with one's physique as well. A small person may have trouble concealing even a compact pistol while a bodybuilder may be able to carry even a large pistol like the Mk23 or Desert Eagle. When I carry my Para I use an "FBI cant" holster to help reduce printing along with an undershirt and a loose fitting button up (Hawaiian shirts work great). I also wear pants a size or two larger than normal for comfort.

So you're telling me every idiot wearing clothes that don't fit him is carrying a big gun. Great :rolleyes:

LMAO I would love to see someone conceal a Mk23 or a DE. Ive held both at gun shows and they are beyond massive.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous D

LMAO I would love to see someone conceal a Mk23 or a DE. Ive held both at gun shows and they are beyond massive.

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You might could carry a DE covered but concealed is a different story. I mean with a trench coat you could conceal an AK or a shotgun. It depends on what lengths you will go to.

I'm not much for the "gun so big it'll make a bad guy shit his pants" theory, but I think if anyone ever snaked a .500 s&w out of there pants and pointed it at them it would most likely cause this type of effect.

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Originally Posted by Atmosfear

So you're telling me every idiot wearing clothes that don't fit him is carrying a big gun. Great :rolleyes:

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Always...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTrXpDK_EYE"]YouTube - How many guns can you hide in daily clothes?[/ame]

LOL Id love to see someone walk around with all that crap in their pants.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous D

LOL Id love to see someone walk around with all that crap in their pants.

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Tell me about it... :)

PT101 sucks if it is the Millenium Edition I shot.

I have a Ruger p345. .45 ACP for home.
Ruger LCP for CCW. It's a .380.

There are literally hundreds of different sights. I have settled on a reflex type sight for my AR-15 for self defense. Any suggestions on what would be the best reflex sight, i.e EOtech, Trijicon, Aimpoint etc? Model numbers?

EOTechs and basic Aimpoints are pretty comparable in terms of overall quality and price; about $350-450 for an EOTech 512 or an Aimpoint Comp-M2. Trijicon Reflexes are also around $400 or a bit less. You might be able to shop around and get a used one for somewhat cheaper. I prefer Aimpoints but they basically do the same thing. Going to a fancier Aimpoint (M3/M4) will push the price up into the $500/$700+ range but get you more features, obviously.

Trijicon ACOGs are usually $900 or more, probably not worth it unless you have a lot of spare cash you're trying to get rid of (I'd rather spend $350 on an Aimpoint and the remaining $600 on another gun). They are very nice, though.

Like it's been said before, it all depends on what you're protecting yourself from. For terrorist-types I prefer the M4A1, complete with ACOG, PAQ-2, and surefire. :P But really, if your area has a lot of drug problems, I'd recommend a heavier caliber. It's amazing what adrenalin alone can do to the body, much less mind-influencing drugs.

As far as sights go, with an AR-type in close quarters you really don't need a reflex site. The front sight post works pretty good. During training exercises I've managed to hit pop-up targets and the like dead-center in the face with just the front post. But, I have seen some EOTechs that are pretty nice. I kinda wanna get one for my M4, as well as something like http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-G...%20mod%203.htm . Just not one that will break, y'know.

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Originally Posted by Syme

Trijicon ACOGs are usually $900 or more, probably not worth it unless you have a lot of spare cash you're trying to get rid of (I'd rather spend $350 on an Aimpoint and the remaining $600 on another gun). They are very nice, though.

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However, I wouldn't recommend using them for a reflex sight unless you plan on using the J-point that attaches to the top. They have a 4X zoom which narrows your field of view significantly, which is not a good thing in close quarters.

*EDIT*
Sorry 'bout the double post.

There are ACOGs that have a zoom of less than 4x. But yes, they are medium-range battle optics, not reflex sights.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous D

Full size 1911s are generally too big for CC IMO.



Oh lol.

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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_d_v3uWfQ0s...olStoryBro.jpg

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...s/P1010029.jpg

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Originally Posted by Shinysides

Okay, I'm looking at possibly getting a Kimber Tactical II, either Pro or Ultra. I want to know though, is the pro going to be a pain in the ass for concealed carry? I want it mainly for home protection but I will be carrying it occasionally too.

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I have a Kimber CDP, Pro, that I bought with conceal carry in mind. Originally I wanted the compact, which has the 4" barrel but the shorter grip length. I didnt want to sacrifice any barrel length and figured the shorter grip would be easier to conceal. I ended up getting the Pro however, I didn't like the way the shorter grip felt and I felt much more comfortable holding the longer grip, a feature I may come to regret when I start carrying, ( I turn 21 Tuesday). I experimented with some different carry positions and it is certainly very doable, however the smaller models are obviously going to be easier to conceal. The compact seems to be the perfect compromise, though I'm not sure they make the Tactical in compact. If its main purpose in life is home defense and you're only occasionally carrying it I think the pro would be fine, even if you were going to carry it all the time I think it would be fine, but again the smaller models are obviously going to be easier to conceal.

LOL, don't be wimps.


Carry the model as it was designed.

Five inches of barrel.

Ha! Some weirdo left me this message with some negarep "THIS IS SO FUCKING SCARY I MEAN REALLY" in regards to one of my earlier posts in this thread. Let's try to determine what is so scary about this post.

Okay, I start off talking about how lazy I have become in regards to concealed carry:

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Originally Posted by fm2176

Well, until the hammer spring broke the Kel-Tec P32 was my carry everywhere piece. Admittedly, I've gotten lazy after twelve years of concealed and open carry. Depending on conditions, I will occasionally strap on the Para or stick the P11 in a pocket. One of those (or the Beretta) goes in the truck regardless of what I am carrying on my person.

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Is it scary that I no longer plan out everything from wardrobe to places I go so I can be armed? Perhaps it is scary that I still keep a handgun in the truck, and mix it up in regards to what and when I carry.

I go on to talk about gun buying:

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Originally Posted by fm2176

I confirmed that I can buy a pistol down here with military orders, and also that the local police supply store honors Glock's law enforcement sales policy. Still looking for a S&W LEO dealer. If I go with Glock it will be an impulse decision between the subcompacts, namely the 26,27,29,30 or 33. The dealer gets Glocks in randomly, so when I get the $400 (26 or 27 w/regular sights) to $550 (29 or 30 w/night sights) I'll just see what's in stock. If I go S&W it'll be an M&P model, I'll have to decide between their revolvers and the compact autos.

I also have my sights set on getting a Taurus 85 Ultralite. I was considering another .357 but decided to go with .38 for the smaller frame. The Judge is still on my list as well but would serve as a car gun and rarely, if ever, get concealed.

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I don't see anything scary here. Louisiana has the same laws Virginia, Tennessee, Kentucky, and many other states have permitting active duty military personnel to buy handguns so long as they are permanently stationed here. Also, gun manufacturers support the troops by giving them the same deals cops get. After all, both cops and military "protect and serve" to some extent, and both are the thin lines protecting America from its internal and external enemies. The rest is all the usual pointless speculation and wishes I normally share before buying something completely different. :)

Okay, lastly:

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Originally Posted by fm2176

My only rule as to caliber is "have a gun". If I walk out the door knowing I am going to get into a firefight, I'd take a shotgun or rifle. It feels great having the weight of the Para on my side and knowing that fourteen rounds of .45 are at the ready. That said, the P32 works great for what it does, despite its tiny cartridge. It rides in the pocket and gives me peace of mind.

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This has to be the scary part. "...have a gun." "...I'd take a shotgun or rifle." "...fourteen rounds of .45." "...peace of mind." Again, all normal stuff I am prone to stating on this site and practice in real life. A gun in the hand is worth five in the safe, a rifle trumps a handgun in most cases, the more firepower the better (usually), and being armed does give me peace of mind much of the time.


Anyway, the anonymous rep giver does have a point. In his/her and many others opinions my point of view is scary. My thoughts; counting on sheepdogs for defense and crouching in fear of those same sheepdogs when they voice their opinion publicly is truly scary.

So I was listening to a 911 call yesterday and it took the cops 20 min to get there. Some guy was beating down an old ladies door and she ended up shooting him with a shotgun. If she wouldn't have had that gun, she would have had to fight the guy for about 8 minutes before the cops got there.

When seconds count, police are just minutes away. --Someones sig on a gun forum...

?

Seriously?

That's the oldest quote in the history of guns.

lol I said the same thing just differently.

Like as in it wasnt the same.

no u

OMG let me have a moment... Excuse me for not being alive for all of time!

Self defense classes are good even if youre not having problems.
Just knowing what to do can be helpful when the time comes.
&I know you said you need em, just saying..
Is self defense karate?
Karate is pretty fun.