Is a 3rd party vote a wasted vote?

Too many times I've heard people say "I'm voting for Obama because I don't want Mitt to win." When I ask them why, they say he's the lesser of the two evils. That brings the follow up question, "why not vote for a 3rd party candidate?" to which they rebuttal "I don't want to waste my vote, he'll never win."

Then 3rd party supporters post things like

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...39674865_n.jpg

which make me wonder- if everyone who hated Obama and everyone who hated Romney came together, could it be possible? 3rd parties have won (although not commonly) in the past to major parties.

I believe you should vote for who you want to be president. Voting for someone because you don't want another major candidate to win seems like a wasted vote to me. Voting with this logic allows another logical fallacy to come into play- "Why bother voting in my state? My state always votes dem/rep!" which can be taken as far as "If I don't live in a swing state it doesn't matter if I vote."

When votes are cast for one major party to keep another major party from winning it's clear the corporations who have turned elections into a game have won. Does it really matter if one or the other wins since they'll both do (essentially) the same thing?

Both major candidates are pretty much going to keep the country in the same direction. So why vote for either? I don't understand how support can be given for candidates who are stripping the american people of their constitutional rights.

So the question I'm asking- Do you think a 3rd party vote is a wasted vote? And if you're voting Democrat (especially if it's just to keep Mitt out) please explain why. I think Gwahir's thread already showed no one here is voting for Mitt.

I've voted republican nearly all my adult life and will be voting for Johnson this time around.

You ask two questions here. Is it a wasted vote? In the sense that we are free to vote for whom we choose, no, it isn't wasted. I'd rather vote for the guy that I actually would like to see in office, even if he has no chance, than vote for someone whom I do not agree with on a majority of issues just to vote the "lesser of two evils". I have the luxury of not living in a swing state though, so my vote doesn't really even matter. I'd rather feel proud about my vote than feeling like I need to take a shower after I leave the polls.

Your second question would be could a third party win. Eventually, all but certainly. This cycle? Not a chance. There are too many people with an interest on keeping things in a nice and tidy two party system where the major issues of spending and government intervention are shared by both parties, but they can differ on issues like contraception or gun control and are gladly assisted by the media to talk about how those issues are SO important to the future of our country. In the debate tonight for example, they will talk about that sort of thing, but I promise you neither candidate will bring up anything about the Federal Reserve or how much of our budget is spent in the military-industrial complex. Instead they focus on things like PBS funding to rile up their bases, and act like they can fix all our problems by starting with the tiniest budgetary items instead of major items such as debt interest and defense spending.

Speaking of debates, if any of you are not aware please google for more information on the League of Women Voters and presidential debates. They are a non-profit that used to run the debate, but in a nutshell the League publicly announced the reason why they stopped doing it was the corruption from the two parties. The debates now are literally run by the two major parties. After Ross Perot pulled a chunk of votes, they changed the rules so a 3rd party had to have a 15% polling in major public polls. That is enough of a hurdle since the media covers 3rd parties very little (if Johnson has 5% nationally, why does he not get mentioned 5 times for every 100 times Romney or Obama are mentioned?) Worse than that hurdle though, using Johnson as an example and remembering he has to get 15% in major polls, he is not mentioned as an OPTION on the major polls. It is the two major parties, and "other". Between the media and polling companies there currently isn't a chance in hell of a 3rd party winning, however they could affect the outcome. To the people that say "well if you are a republican and vote Johnson instead of Romney, you are just helping Obama win", assuming I was in a swing state, I would reply with "Romney didn't offer the platform I wanted to win my vote, the reason Mitt Romney did not get my vote is due solely to Mitt Romney" Speaking for myself, and following the whole primary process closely, the GOP had many many chances to throw me a bone, but they went out of their way to shit on my idea of what I want from my federal government at nearly every opportunity. This will eventually and slowly change as history has shown, but for this cycle they did not put up a candidate I would ever support.

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Originally Posted by Rick Scarf

Speaking of debates, if any of you are not aware please google for more information on the League of Women Voters and presidential debates. They are a non-profit that used to run the debate, but in a nutshell the League publicly announced the reason why they stopped doing it was the corruption from the two parties. The debates now are literally run by the two major parties.

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More specifically, it's run by an organization funded by major corporations and representing the two major parties. So it's not just that the two parties shutting out third party voices, but also corporations finding another way to buy favor with BOTH parties by subsidizing this whole venture.

As for this presidential election? I'm writing in "Steven Colbert." I'm in Maryland, which is going to Obama regardless of what I do. I don't think I want to vote for Johnson, though I respect him and I like many of his policy ideas. However, from the State of Maryland Board of Elections website, I see a fellow Marylander wrote in "Claus, Santa (Independent)," and frankly I may be more inclined to vote for him before Johnson. Despite the actually small policy distinctions between the two parties, politics have become extremely polarized, and I feel that I've been poisoned enough by this tainted atmosphere that I feel I must vote for a reasonably liberal candidate. I find particularly anathema his advocacy of an unprogressive taxation.

(Besides, my parents are accountants and need a convoluted tax system to take them through the next couple years until retirement.)

You should consider writing in this guy then-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d_FvgQ1csE

Also, as an accountant, I want a simplified tax system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick Scarf

You should consider writing in this guy then-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d_FvgQ1csE

Also, as an accountant, I want a simplified tax system.

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I wish I vote for Vermin Supreme. But he said he was gonna reverse Randall Terry me.

Also, you're not a tax accountant that gets most of his yearly income from tax preparation.

You are correct, I work year-round

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick Scarf

You are correct, I work year-round

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Ah but tax preparation is actually a year 'round thing. You have tax season, yes, but then you also have extensions. And there is book keeping to be done throughout the whole year, even if that doesn't account for the majority of income.

But look at me going on about tax preparation when we're suppose to be talking about 3rd party candidates.

Besides, I... really don't have anything more knowledge.

Sorry that was an accounting in-joke, tell your parents and they will lol until they fall down.

Any thoughts on Jill Stein? I'm not big on the "green" party of the Green Party all that much but I could live with that for her positions on the role of government and civil liberties.

Side note, while Stein and Johnson (the two "main" 3rd party candidates) are getting very little air time, I did notice that I think it was Hannity that had Roseanne Barr on as a subtle hint to the Fox viewers that all 3rd parties are by association a joke. The interview was very condescending and set up to make 3rd parties look like a comedy option instead of a serious option with serious (and DIFFERENT) arguments.

Limited knowledge of politics warning


Voting third party is a waste of a vote, in my opinion. They haven't been invited to the debates, get significantly less coverage in the media, and are relatively unknown compared to the Duet of Evil. I vote Democratic, because I'm a poor white man(well, that's what conservatives would tell you, even though I collect nothing from the government). Really, the main reason I don't vote Republican is because of how often they run with "God on their side". I know that's a week argument, but I'm pro-choice, and atheist to boot, I'd rather not vote anyone who uses any religion(aside from Pastafarianism) as a selling point, no matter how minor. I didn't think Obama would be the savior of our nation that people thought he would be, and he's fucked a lot up, but has also made some nice changes for us. Maybe his second term he'll impose some sweeping social reforms, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, his healthcare is a major plus for me, because 6 years ago me being able to afford health insurance was near impossible, it was either pay my rent, or pay for health insurance, both of which I absolutely need. I don't qualify for Tenncare(TN's healthcare for the poor), because I'm a "healthy"(aside from the diebeetus), young, white male.

But, I would really like to see Johnson in, and I may vote for him, because there is no way in hell Tennessee will be anything other than a red state.

Also, as I got into an argument with my dad about this, but I really liked the fact that "Don't Ask Don't Tell" was repealed.

I couldn't in good conscience vote for a Libertarian. While I see they've begun to accept that some government regulation is needed, lack of regulation and lack of proper enforcement of existing regulations are what got us into this stupid financial meltdown in the first place.

Now if I was to vote for any 3rd party this election, it would be The Green Party.


In the end though, the vast majority of the American population is tied into a two-party system. 99.99% of the advertisements are for either a Republican or a Democrat, and that's what people look at. With the Citizens United ruling, it's even worse now. Because the general population is only informed of Republicans & Democrats, and because we have a winner-take-all system, a third party is never going to do anything more than cause a minor stir in the electorate.

Without a massive overhaul of the electorate system, or the complete abolishment of political parties, there will never be a "third party" president.