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Two words:
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fuck bucks
Vote democrat.
move to Canada
Tax pot.
Just kidding. I'd pay higher taxes to keep potheads iin jail getting cornholed. Those darn criminal deviants.
get rid of the federal reserve, we don't need a private entity that is exempt from congressional oversight running around handing out fiat currency and putting the burden on the taxpayers when it comes time to write the checks for their errors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Scarf
Oh god my head :(
qftQuote:
Originally Posted by simonj
Democrats == RepublicansQuote:
Originally Posted by simonj
see also: http://www.casualdiscourse.com/forum...hread.php?t=41
in this post i will figure out how to save the US election
stop letting americans vote, let other countries vote for them
soup has the best idea itt
I know there are only minor differences but the democrats have the stronger economic policies at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Scarf
Stronger in what way?Quote:
Originally Posted by simonj
We can't afford what we have now, how are we going to afford more social programs and handouts?
The US has been the most in debt nation in the developed world for years.
But, cutting government spending, taxing higher incomes etc. would help more than a republican economic system.
Do you have any idea what you are saying or does your brain not work for itself anymore? Cutting government spending and lowering middle income taxes have been the traditional republican platform - that is what republicans DO (or rather, are supposed to do but don't do any more)Quote:
Originally Posted by simonj
Democrats have traditionally been for higher taxes and higher spending on government programs. Child, do you not see the parties converging into an ideological singularity?
You just gave me your idea of what the democratic platform is and tried to tell me it is the opposite of the republican platform, when in actuality you gave me a republican platform.
Transfer all the money into espees as mentin by tengui, then give all those espees to me then i cash them out for real money.
Lets make something called ZOINTS POINTS
ITT Rick Scarf impresses me by being universally correct
Also, if the liberal media did its job instead of just being an anti-bush clusterfuck maybe you kids would know that it isn't just America's market in trouble right now
i heard the UK banks are going down the shitter too
unfortunately i had to hear that on digg and not on fox news
edit: we are probably going to end up borrowing $85,000,000,000 from China to bailout AIG by the way, in case anyone cares
85 billion looks like a lot more money with all of the actual zeros behind it but the media never reports it that way
could be worse, the freddie/fannie thing might be worth a trillion or two (or more).. if you're keeping score at home that would be the unfathomable dollar amount of $2,000,000,000,000 or for you mathemagicians, 2 x 10^12 aka a fucking shitload
on the other side of the coin though we can get through this. as it stands now, our economy is still in better shape than the savings and loans problems of the 80s, in terms of total bank failures. Only a handful of banks have failed this time around, compared to an average of a bank every day or two - for a couple years
As long as China has such a prime interest in buying our debt we'll be fine. China can royally fuck up our economy whenever they want to. I think they're using that as a safety net in case shit ever hits the fan, but on the plus side it does mean that we as individual people don't have a whole lot to worry about for now.
Though the US gov't needs to stop giving corporate bailouts. Unfortunately, the alternative to continuously giving corporate bailout is a recession, which is something that no one wants.
It is a pickle and proposing a solution of my own is beyond my current level of economic understanding
oh yeah, that goes without sayingQuote:
Originally Posted by Rick Scarf
well most people aren't as wise as you and I - according to the media, the sky is falling and everyone needs to pull their money out now while they still can :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. E
the u.s. markets have never in its history had a negative growth over any period of at least 10 years. Manage your investments with long term goals in mind and you'll be fine. Try to daytrade or move stuff around too much and you'll be screwed even in a good economy.
UK banks are just buying other UK banks.
It's the way we roll.
edit: oh yeah and the people now own a controlling stake of Northern Rock which will slowly disappear. Money well spent!
The spread of a more-biased-by-the-day mass media is really a horrible thing for the economy. When they sensationalize little things that happen more frequently than anyone realizes they only create a self-fulfilling economic prophecy. If you tell everyone to pull their money out of their investments because a recession is coming (some say it is here which is all kinds of bullshit), and everyone will and because of that a recession will occur in a situation that, had it been left alone, wouldn't have played out to be any worse than anything else that has happened in the past 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Scarf
They did the same thing with gas prices when Ike hit. Katrina destroyed way more oil platforms and had the refineries and the pipelines shut down for longer, but when Katrina hit gas prices didn't go up too much because the media was too busy attacking federal response practices. When Ike, a significantly less catastrophic event, came along, the only big thing they had to talk about was gas supply, so they said gas prices would go up to $5.00. Then everyone goes and buys gas right before and as the refineries and pipelines are shutting down, causing the supplies that there were to be unnaturally taxed and temporarily not replenishable, causing prices to skyrocket due to dwindling supply and above average demand.
It is kind of like traffic. If during rush hour everyone would just go the speed limit, then everyone would go the speed limit. However, there are the jackasses that don't go the speed limit because they are overly cautious mergers or a bush is on fire or some shit, causing things to get fucked up and slow when there is really no need for it to be that way at all.
BREAKING NEWS ALERT: KITTEN RESCUED FROM TREE IN HOBOKEN, NJ
Just make sure MrDie doesn't see this thread
Communism is the answer.
the answer is blowing in the wind
I am an economics and finance major, and all i have to say is we should just pack it in and go home. It was fun while it lasted America
Love :)
Socialism first.Quote:
Originally Posted by benzss
But yes Scarf is correct.
A good link on the two main parties and how they've changed as history has progressed:
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/ar..._the_roots.htm
And I believe Mr. E would be in full agreement with this link:
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/ar...t_in_ameri.htm
Acid in the water. If everyone would just drop acid we could get this stuff figured out. But wait... Didn't the hippies become democrats? Rub that idea out.
Steal from China.
We cannot keep bailing these guys out thats for sure. There has to be a accountability. Although everyone is afraid of a financial the economy collapsing, we are onluy a band-aid on the problem by doing this.
Well this is an overreaction if I've ever seen one. America is nowhere near being so financially unstable that it would collapse. Nowhere near.Quote:
Originally Posted by ocelot22
The more you know - since everyone is so freaked out about the economy and the media is painting such a dim picture.. if you're in the market to buy a house (and qualify financially to be buying one), the next few weeks are going to be the best buyer's market we've had in a looooooong time. Even if you're building instead of buying a used house, the people in that industry are so hard up for work, and materials costs are down 20-30% so you can easily get a STEAL.
Too bad I'm still paying off some debt so I am not in the market for a house, otherwise I would be all over this like salt on a pretzel.
this was my idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bifford
legalize marijuana and tax it
Piracy.
And I'm not talking about what your gay ass fourteen year old brother does whenever he wants the newest Linkin Park album.
Im sorry, i was being kind of lethargic. If you read the wall street journal as much as i do, you would get a headache from all of the holy shit! headlines, so i was kinda spewing the stuff filled in my head. I do think that things are very bad. I do think that if we did not have the controls in place today that it would be another great depression. I do not think that it will get that bad. I do however, think that the more we intervene, and throw off the natural mechanism in the future, the harder further crises will be to stabilize in the future. I think it will be a few years coming out of this, (which is why i hope to go to grad school to wade this out). I do think things will be rough for a while, and we will see some rising unemployment in the next year. It shouldnt be anything we cannot handle though. I doubt it will exceed 9 percent, probly level off around 8Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. E
Which do you think sells more newspapers - headlines of shock and fear, or plain boring ones?
I have this theory that G.W. will try to get it legalized before he leaves office. That's about the only thing that he could do to even come close to saving his train wreck of a presidency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Infernus
But since he only has 4 months left, it would be a horrible failure. Ergo...Quote:
Originally Posted by djwolford
As if that one act would make up for all he has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by djwolford
GWB hasn't been as bad of a president as the media has painted him to be. He's nowhere near the worst one, that's for sure. The American war in Iraq was exactly the same as the American war in Cuba in the late 19th and early 20th century. We went in to save a nation of people who needed saving from a tyrannical power, then set them up to be independent over a period of years after the war was done. We went in on a lie (WMDs vs. Heart saying the Spanish blew up the Maine even though it blew up on its own), we won pretty quickly but the fighting continued forever, and we made the exact same mistakes (decommissioning the local military then setting up a poor substitute in its place, not properly educating our soldiers of the fighting conditions and the native cultures, etc...). 100 years from now people will view them as exactly the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTroy
I'm tired of butt hurt liberals going to the exact same two things to attack Bush's entire administration. Economy and the War in Iraq. The war in Iraq wasn't that bad. We've done it before, and we'll probably do it again. In the end those people are better off, in spite of what anyone tells you. And the economy not growing as fast as it was before is equal parts blame to Bush, Congress, the Fed, and media sensationalism.
Problem is, Husein went on the CIA train into the government, persecuting Communists and so on. He managed to gain an independent foreign policy though and in the 70's was friendly to the Soviets. He was also secular. (Homosexuality wasn't officially a crime until 2001 or so when the fundamentalist types demanded it be) The government had popular support up until the late 80's when stuff like losing the Iran-Iraq War and the resulting economic bust occurred. (This was also when they began moving from pseudo-semi-socialism to outright military rule)
Of course whether the government is in effect the puppet of another or not is irrelevant, it's still a capitalist nation and in this cause bourgeois democracy comes in (replacing autocracy) offering parties with minimal differences with the exception of emergency situations. In this case it seems the pro-US government (with the currently pro-US Kurds) against the pro-Iranian are fending off the Shi'ite fundamentalists led by al-Sistani influence-wise, and appear to be losing.
So basically you have a superpower and growing regional power competing with each other on the ballot boxes in Iraq.
In the eyes of a large portion of the American public.....yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTroy
There would be a ton of people that would start seeing him as a hero instead of a fuckup if he legalized it.
Why on earth would you want it legalized? Can you not find it? There's dealers everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by djwolford
If it was legalized then there would need to be an industry to back it and the three main contenders would be the tobacco industry, the alcohol industry or the pharmaceutical industry, none of which have great track records and all of which would completely fuck it up.
It's fine the way it is.
Question: Are we in a recession?
Answer: Nope.
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmosfear
This same portion also happens to be barely above the voting age.Quote:
In the eyes of a large portion of the American public.....yeah.
I personally don't care if it's ever legalized, I'm just saying it would change a lot of opinions about Bush.Quote:
Originally Posted by simonj
I don't even smoke the stuff that often. As far as dealers go....you're better off to make friends with growers and smoke for free.
GO into another great depression.
Oh wait, we are in another one atm.
Shit.
QUIT FUCKING SPENDING MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE!!!!!
Don't let banks use morgages for collateral. Don't give speculators as much power as they do.
lol, if you think this is another great depression you need to take a walk through US history one more timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Vengeful Scars
Buy guns and V8 muscle cars.
Give up. Accept Jesus Krist as your Lord and Savior for truly these are the end of times.
It's certainly not a Great Depression level event. You'd have to be smoking crack to seriously believe that the US(and most of the world) in not experiencing a major recession though.
That being said, it's being overhyped. I mean really, this shit happens, it'll stop soon.
We aren't even in a depression, much less the great depression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Scarf
Yeah......I study economics and finance.....Quote:
Originally Posted by djwolford
We're not in a recession, and I'm not smoking crack. The fact that you think we are means one and/or two things. #1: You don't know what a recession is, by definition #2: You are unfamiliar with the most recent American economic data
But if you ignore what recession means, and all relevant data, then yeah, we're in a recession.
Even if we end up in a recession, it is just defined as two back-to-back fiscal quarters of negative growth. We don't have that now (yet, anyway) and even if we do have that it is not the end of the world. If McDonalds had two quarters in a row when they were backward on growth they wouldn't be closing their doors, they would just need to rethink their gameplan.
Indeed Scarf, you said it nicely. People are acting as if America falling into a recession would mean that the country is going to collapse. Not only has America seen many much worse periods of economic strife, look at other countries. There are countries that have been in a recession for 40 or 50 years that are still there, countries a lot less resourceful than America would be in their place too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Scarf
Not to mention that the US has no nations within it (as in, no German nation, Irish nation, Hungarian nation, etc. sine we're all integrated) alienated or not with the exception of the various Native American nations which are alienated but incapable of sustaining themselves at the moment as independent states. Even during the Great Depression where both Fascism and Communism were at their heights popularity-wise there was no talk of dissolving the USA. Even in Canada where there are stronger separatism movements you don't see any serious attempts except in Quebec which is pretty isolated from the rest of Canada. The strongest separatism after that is in Alberta which distrusts the rest of Canada due to economic policies in the 1970's but even then no real serious attempts that can remotely compare to the FLQ, Bloc Quebecois, etc.
Maybe I just look to much into the fact that some of the largest lenders in the world are going under.Quote:
Originally Posted by djwolford
Also many, many, many real estate and title companies are non-existent now (I can name 5 multi-million dollar companies in middle Tennessee alone that are no longer in operation)
Do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeful Scars
I haven't been paying close attention to local businesses lately.
save the cheerleader, save the US financial market
If they can't properly underwrite and maintain acceptable risk levels by accounting standards then it's better off for everyone that they closed their doors, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeful Scars
Precisely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. E
The economy has slowed. It has not recessed.
Of course, this is why journalists are absolutely the most soulless fucks on the planet. Their motivation lies solely in sales and they have no obligation to investigate or test the truth of their theories so much as they have motivation to churn out them with maximum sensationalism and revise or apologize later.
It doesn't matter who the journalist is or what the publication, if you're reading it in mass media, it's probably not credible.
Obama said that the United States was facing its worst financial crisis since the Great Depression in the debate tonight. Obama fails American History. McCain wins!
what kind of debt are we talking here? have you actually talked with a lender to see what they would actually require you to pay off in order to qualify for a mortgage? it might be worth your time to do so. go FHA so you only have to come up with 3% down and then ask the seller's to pay all your closing costs, escrows and prepaids so you don't have to come up with an additional $4000 or so on top of of your 3% down. FHA allows up to 6% seller concessions, so they can pay all your closing costs and give you a credit for carpet or appliance upgrades if you like too. i'm seeing mortgages in the less than 125k price range here including principal, interest, taxes and insurance come in at like a grand a month, which is about what it costs to rent a shit 2/2 apartment here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Scarf
you are absolutely right about the buyer's market and interest rates are sick low right now
To be fair, I have not seen or heard a single mainstream news outlet call the current economic situation a "recession." I would hazard to guess that this is the poster's own analysis and not anyone in the media's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmosfear
I am aware of that and while it would technically be financially feasible, I would not be comfortable with the risks associated with only having 3% down on a house. We've got our cars paid off but still have my credit card and we both have student loans. The gameplan is we'll start saving for a house once we get everything but the student loans paid off, which should be here in a next few months. I am not interested in either the risks associated with a 97:3 ratio of debt-to-equity or paying money for PMI by having less than 20% down.Quote:
Originally Posted by DickStivers
what are you talking about risks? i understand not wanting to carry the pmi, but it'd only be like $60/month and you could earn that by investing your 17% that you don't dump into the house and keeping yourself liquid for an emergency. as long as you pay your note, there is no "risk", unless i'm missing something here. you guys can defer your student loans no prob. once you have 20% equity in the house, either through appreciation or adding a little extra $$$ to your mortgage payment every month, you can drop the pmi. i'd much rather keep my cash on hand in case a job is lost or an emergeny came up rather than put it into the house for no reason. the rates on FHA vs conventional are pretty competitive and FHA is sometimes lower. i just got someone 6.1% the other day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Scarf
i remember you posting on lws about your savings and investments - you seem pretty wise with money and not the type to run up a credit card, so i can't imagine you have much debt...
If my wife or I lost our job at our current incomes we could not afford a $1,000/mo payment, nor the upkeep/maintainence costs a house would require. Also, my job allows me great flexibility with promotions if I am willing to relocate, so there is a real chance that we might move 2-3 years from today and have to sell a house that may have gone down in value since we bought it - If I bought a house I would want to plan on being in it at least 5 years so it would have a better chance of increasing in value.
One of my co-workers is in a shitty situation because he had to move for work, 6 months or more ago, and still hasn't been able to sell his 1st home so he is very strained financially, paying for the house he owns but can't sell, as well as paying rent on his current house. I'm pretty conservative I guess so I just don't see the justification of "playing the system" by deferring student loans to temporarily liquidate funds that are not always guaranteed to be there. Too much risk for my taste.
yeah all that's understandable and if there's a chance of relocation i see where you're coming from.
ITT WE TALK ABOUT A LOT OF SHIT I DONT UNDERSTAND
Legalize weed and tax it.
duh
I haveQuote:
Originally Posted by sycld
Eh, well then they're stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. E
I mostly get my news from NPR, mind you, and they have talked about a "danger of a recession," but never have they called it a recession, just a "crisis" or the like.
Well, NPR is the most accurate news source. I'm not surprised they haven't fuckered upQuote:
Originally Posted by sycld
I've heard pretty much every mainstream news source say it at one point or another though, from CNN to MSNBC to Fox News
The 2 parties, Democrat and Republican, are clearly different. Quit acting like you know what you're talking about Scarf.
sycld, it's just as bad when they constantly report factual falsehoods coming from politicians/talking heads/analysts without correction. We simple are not in a recession, but you won't find that explicitly stated in any news media report because it won't sell papers.
How many degrees do you have in political science again? I have one, so I am going to guess that is one more than you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
uh scarf why are you bragging about a political science degree
lol political science
Much like philosophy, political science is pretty much a dead-end.
That quote and reply I made was the only chance I would ever HAVE to brag about it, did you really think I would pass on that opportunity to validate 4 years worth of out-of-state tuition?Quote:
Originally Posted by Atmosfear
Valid point, Scarf.
You should have said 3 and that would have really trumped him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Scarf
Unite as a nation and work together to try and salvage what we can while being Americans instead of being Democrates or Republicans?
Hey it could happen!
yeah, that wouldn't do jack, even if it were possible, which it isn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by no_brains_no_worries
I know it'll never happen, but how would that not help? Think of all that energy, time and money used by political parties to blame each other and argue. What if we used that instead, to help look for a solution? One of the most interesting solutions I've read about is by a professor who suggested allowing people to buy wall street's debt. Sure that might be too far fetched but the point is there are options out there, we just need to stop trying to save face and look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. E
I think we should take Lil Wayne's advice and get a Winn-Dixie grocery bag full of money right now to the VIP section
Hey guys now that the bailout passed we have $6 Million for Wooden Bow and Arrows for children!
Smell that pork cookin!