Building a Desktop

My computer's harddrive crashed recently. I've decided that I would like to try to build a desktop from components I've canabalized from my old (but relatively new) PC and from new components.

I have a rather nice guide that I'm reading, but I was just wondering: are there are steps in the process that a noob would be prone to fuck up, or is there anything I need to keep in mind that may not be so obvious? I'm not extraordinarily tech-savy, but I'm at least more proficient than average, and at least on the face of it, building a desktop doesn't seem terribly daunting...

What parts do you have to work with?

1. Don't do work on a carpet or other static-electricity prone surface; ground yourself.
2. Make sure your components match up (i.e. a Socket AM2 processor won't work with an LGA775 board).
3. Make sure your power supply more than meets your power needs, though you can sort of cut it close if you are careful.
4. Motherboards need standoffs, otherwise parts may be fried, or at least short out.
5. Airflow. You need a decent stream if you want to keep your computer at a proper temp. For example, my case actually heats up if the side window is taken off.
6. Thermal paste. Don't use the standard shit. It works well enough, but Arctic Silver 5 is a key to longevity and stability.
7. Make sure if you have front USB and/or media reader connections to unhook them from the board. not doing so before an installation will give you a C: drive that is not your Windows install.
8. Memory will underclock or not run at all if the board doesn't accept the sticks properly. try to match up the RAM as close to standard as you can.

That's all I can think of right now... Some of it is sorta common sense, but just throwing it out there for some usefulness.

Oh, and ditto to Harner's question.

It looks like I may not be building my desktop after all. My harddrive hadn't crashed after all, and my old PC is up and running.

But just in case...

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Originally Posted by Harner

What parts do you have to work with?

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DVD-R/CD drive, some DDR DIMM's, a rather new graphics card (whose socket type I don't remember), and apparently a harddrive now. That's probably about it, aside from peripherals of course.

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Originally Posted by linkinkampf19

1. Don't do work on a carpet or other static-electricity prone surface; ground yourself.
2. Make sure your components match up (i.e. a Socket AM2 processor won't work with an LGA775 board).
3. Make sure your power supply more than meets your power needs, though you can sort of cut it close if you are careful.
4. Motherboards need standoffs, otherwise parts may be fried, or at least short out.
5. Airflow. You need a decent stream if you want to keep your computer at a proper temp. For example, my case actually heats up if the side window is taken off.
6. Thermal paste. Don't use the standard shit. It works well enough, but Arctic Silver 5 is a key to longevity and stability.
7. Make sure if you have front USB and/or media reader connections to unhook them from the board. not doing so before an installation will give you a C: drive that is not your Windows install.
8. Memory will underclock or not run at all if the board doesn't accept the sticks properly. try to match up the RAM as close to standard as you can.

That's all I can think of right now... Some of it is sorta common sense, but just throwing it out there for some usefulness.

Oh, and ditto to Harner's question.

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Thanks. 6 is very useful info, and 7 is something I was totally unaware of.

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Originally Posted by linkinkampf19

7. Make sure if you have front USB and/or media reader connections to unhook them from the board. not doing so before an installation will give you a C: drive that is not your Windows install.
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I agree with everything you've said except that. I just rebuilt my desktop and have never heard of that. I had front and rear USB headers installed and had no problems installing Windows. Maybe on the media card readers.


Syclid, we'll need more info on that graphics card. If you are using DDR, it may be AGP which is rather outdated. PCIe is the new video card standard. If you are going to do a rebuild, what's your budget?

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Originally Posted by SneeBeezums

Syclid, we'll need more info on that graphics card. If you are using DDR, it may be AGP which is rather outdated. PCIe is the new video card standard. If you are going to do a rebuild, what's your budget?

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Naw dawg, it's a PCIe card.

As for my budget, I wasn't certain... but let me say that my target would have been a mid-range system equivalent.

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Originally Posted by linkinkampf19

6. Thermal paste. Don't use the standard shit. It works well enough, but Arctic Silver 5 is a key to longevity and stability.

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I'm sorry, but this is just false. AS is definitely better and will reduce temps, but the 5-10 degree difference isn't going to make a bit of difference to either longevity or stability as long as you're below the tjunction max. CPUs are engineered to last at least 10 years under this temperature (real world is more like 20+). Most people do not use CPUs long enough to worry about any minute effects on longevity, even if AS made that much difference (it does not unless you're overclocking). The major concern is to prevent going over the tjunction max, as your PC will start shutting down to protect itself. The default thermal paste does this just fine.

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7. Make sure if you have front USB and/or media reader connections to unhook them from the board. not doing so before an installation will give you a C: drive that is not your Windows install.

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I've never experienced or heard of this.

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Originally Posted by ephekt

Most people do not use CPUs long enough to worry about any minute effects on longevity, even if AS made that much difference (it does not unless you're overclocking).

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Yeah, I'm probably not going to be overclocking, though I could understand how that assumption might be made if I'm building my own PC...

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Originally Posted by SneeBeezums

I agree with everything you've said except that. I just rebuilt my desktop and have never heard of that. I had front and rear USB headers installed and had no problems installing Windows. Maybe on the media card readers.

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Yeah sorry about that. In my typing frenzy I actually meant just media card readers, or quite possibly if you had a USB stick inserted into one of slots. Media card readers themselves will be recognized as drives even if there are no card in them, therefore giving them priority as C:, D:, and E:, etc. Also, this may have been corrected in Vista and Windows 7, but I know for sure it happens in XP.

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Originally Posted by Ephekt

I'm sorry, but this is just false.

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I just was reinforcing that AS5 is that good. I was just trying to find a few decent words to give headway between regular ceramic compound and AS5. I guess longevity wasn't the best choice. Thanks for giving me insight to CPU architecture. You learn something new everyday.

Plus, I've always just ever used AS5 and kinda look down on plain paste nowadays.

I never used thermal paste(even though I meant to) when putting together a desktop and I have had no problems. I put my desktop together 3 years ago and have been running it nonstop ever since with no problems.

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Originally Posted by Killuminati

I never used thermal paste(even though I meant to) when putting together a desktop and I have had no problems. I put my desktop together 3 years ago and have been running it nonstop ever since with no problems.

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well, it all depends on the how hot your CPU gets. if it's less powerful or underclocked it will require less heat disipation.

but beside that, just because thermal contact isn't perfect doesn't mean your CPU will fry up. however, it may mean that your CPU's lifetime will be lower than it would be otherwise. if you don't plan on using it for 10 years, it might not be an issue.

I only overclocked for a bit, and I have a core 2 duo 1.86ghz. Honestly though who would keep a cpu for 10 years, last time I checked Moore's law still held true.

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Originally Posted by Killuminati

I only overclocked for a bit, and I have a core 2 duo 1.86ghz. Honestly though who would keep a cpu for 10 years, last time I checked Moore's law still held true.

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i don't know enough about heat generation in CPUs to say how much of a factor less ideal heat dissipation is in this case.

to be fair about moore's law, yes, the density of transistors is increasing according to said "law," but the limiting factor to actual increased speed it/is going to be heat dissipation.

as for increased transistor density, the limiting factor is going to be the gate oxide, since below a certain thickness electron tunneling is going to limit how thin a gate oxide and be. on top of that, the gate oxide in a MOSFET has to be significantly thinner than the width of the transistor. to make a thinner dielectric layer, we could use other oxides besides silicon dioxide with higher k values (higher polarizability), most notably hafnium oxide.

just chiming in with while i agree with moores law and all that i'm still using a computer from 2000

only thing i've done is put a gig stick in it and i still have no problems except when producing musique

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Originally Posted by sycld

to be fair about moore's law, yes, the density of transistors is increasing according to said "law," but the limiting factor to actual increased speed it/is going to be heat dissipation.

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And power draw.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

And power draw.

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no, the limits imposed by suppliable power have not yet been reached, but we are reaching the limits imposed by heat generation and tunneling. or link me something if I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by sycld

no, the limits imposed by suppliable power have not yet been reached, but we are reaching the limits imposed by heat generation and tunneling. or link me something if I'm wrong.

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I know tunneling is an issue.

It wasn't that it was impossible to draw the power, but that in cost/benefit.. it no longer was a viable option.

Go go quantum computing in 100 years.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

I know tunneling is an issue.

It wasn't that it was impossible to draw the power, but that in cost/benefit.. it no longer was a viable option.

Go go quantum computing in 100 years.

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perhaps that's true, but tunneling and heat dissipation are different in that they are physical limits that will literally not allow the device to operate, economically or not.

as for quantum computing, it unfortunately is only more efficient than a classical computer for a rather circumscribed set of a problems, if it can be implemented at all.

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Originally Posted by sycld

perhaps that's true, but tunneling and heat dissipation are different in that they are physical limits that will literally not allow the device to operate, economically or not.

as for quantum computing, it unfortunately is only more efficient than a classical computer for a rather circumscribed set of a problems, if it can be implemented at all.

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All that's currently possible with quantum computing, as far as I'm aware is double digit addition.

Tunnel and Heat dissipation of course are the more pertinent issues. More so tunneling given Moores. We are at the micrometer range already, if I recall.

Quantum computers are cool but like sycld said they are really only better at certain tasks then computers today(cryptography etc.). I want a DNA based computer.

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Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy

All that's currently possible with quantum computing, as far as I'm aware is double digit addition.

Tunnel and Heat dissipation of course are the more pertinent issues. More so tunneling given Moores. We are at the micrometer range already, if I recall.

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The things I said about QC were theoretical but rigorously-derived conclusions. Of course, you're right in that actual implementations of QC have been so small scale that all that has been done is adding two numbers together.

Also, we were in the micron range for transistors decades ago; that's why it's called "micortechnology," after all. We're around the 60 nm node now.

EDIT: I double-checked this, and it looks like the state-of-the-art that is currently in the consumer market is 45 nm transistors. 65 nm was state-of-the-art all the way back in 2007. Technology is shrinking quickly...

Also, I should clarify by saying that the size node refers to the half-pitch of the transistor array. That is, the center-to-center spacing of the transistors is twice the node size. The transistor width is around half the center-to-center spacing.

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Originally Posted by faesce

just chiming in with while i agree with moores law and all that i'm still using a computer from 2000

only thing i've done is put a gig stick in it and i still have no problems except when producing musique

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Heh, I still have an Athlon XP 2000+ I bought in early 2000. It's been overclocked and running most of that time (it's currently a home automation box, so it's actually under-clocked now).

ill clock u

You guys need to get with the times. You can put together a nice computer for $3-400 these days.

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Originally Posted by Killuminati

You guys need to get with the times. You can put together a nice computer for $3-400 these days.

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Hmm... mind listing the components for a sample build?

I put this together for my parents in may and since you already have a good video card you would be set with a configuration like this. I'm sure it would be cheaper or you could get better parts now too, I'll take a look on newegg.

Foxconn G31AX-K LGA 775 Intel G31 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F - OEM
RAIDMAX SMILODON ATX-612WBP Black 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case With 500W Power Supply - Retail
Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500418AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail
Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 Wolfdale 2.8GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80571E7400 - Retail

$402.94

Assuming you have a case and peripherals:

Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128357 - $53
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116072 - $63
4GB RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231122 - $54
Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130339 - $130
Power Supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371015 - $80
HDD:
DVD Drive - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151187 - $30

Grand total ~ $410. That's assuming you don't have DDR2, a decent PSU, or a DVD Drive. It's a pretty limited system but you it could fair pretty well I'd think.

Kill's setup is pretty nice.

If you have a video card and hard drive but want a pretty nasty computer here is one

COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail $69.99
COOLER MASTER RS-600-AMBA-D3 600W ATX12V V2.3 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail $79.99
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail $159.99
ASUS P5Q Pro Turbo LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $134.99
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK - Retail

With combo deals and instant savings it comes to $439.99 with free shipping.

Cool beans, thanks.

2 questions:

1) Even for a very mid- edging on low-end gaming PC, wouldn't you want a quad-core processor?

2) I never, ever understand what OEM means. Wut duz OEM mean?

Thanks again homies.

OEM is without a retail box. IE, a HDD will come with bubble wrap over the drive itself and in a ESD bag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origina...t_manufacturer

As for the Quad core vs Dual core. This is a good article to read regarding that: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ance,2373.html

TL;DR version. You'll see a more marginal increase in performance from a Dual Core to Triple Core than Triple to Quad. Unless you do a lot of multitasking during your game sessions, Quad core isn't an extreme necessity. Of course you'll probably be more set for the future as support for 4 cores settles in.

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Originally Posted by linkinkampf19

7. Make sure if you have front USB and/or media reader connections to unhook them from the board. not doing so before an installation will give you a C: drive that is not your Windows install.

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Originally Posted by ephekt

I've never experienced or heard of this.

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I've seen something like this once, I forget what exact type of media reader it was, it was given the C:\ and the Windows partition was made D:\. No big deal, but the users I was doing it for are average users, and every program installation is mapped to C:\blahblahblah, so they would have to change the path every time.

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Originally Posted by sycld

2) I never, ever understand what OEM means. Wut duz OEM mean?

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Original Equipment Manufacturer - basically "factory" stuff. In the case of newegg, if you order something that is OEM and not "Retail", it was made for an someone like HP, or Dell, meaning no retail packaging, possibly no manual or drivers with it.