I want to work on, with, for, and make love to computers

I'm starting college in Summer 2012, and I'll have a lot of free time and loads of extra cash to learn whatever I want. I've been looking at careers in computer programming, engineering, security, system analyzation, and networking. There's a lot to pick from there. I really don't know which I would to try my hand at before I focus on one of those as a career. I'm an ambitious amateur at best, and honestly, I know nothing of what is important to know now and for the future. My math is atrocious because I've hadn't used it for so long, so I've been teaching myself Algebra and Geometry and will continue to move onto higher levels of mathematics. Aside from that, what else should I study and what else should I do to get prepared for venturing forth into the computer industry.

You need to pick something and move towards it. Programming is probably the easiest field to get work in, especially web technologies.

security, networking and system analysis will get you long hours for quite a few years at a helpdesk before you're able to get a job in your chosen field.

Engineering is ... well ... engineering.

Programming is always useful if you want to freelance, I really wish I would have gotten into it myself but my tiny brain just can't seem to grasp on to it.

what the fuck is analyzation?

If you can, take introductory courses in whatever you're even slightly interested in. I didn't even think I would be that interested in programming until I took the Intro class for it. Now I love it, and it's my concentration. Originally I really thought I'd like networking until I took Intro to Networking and now I'm like fuck that shit.


You should try going to the career center at like any college and ask for brochures on like the demands for different careers and which ones have more growth potential and shit.

Also I wouldn't agonize too much about preparing to go into the computer industry since you haven't even started college yet. You're going to be taking classes with kids straight out of high school who haven't prepared for shit.

Maybe take a general computing course that covers everything and then decide what you like the most and specialize in it.

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Originally Posted by sailor jack

what the fuck is analyzation?

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I have no idea. Google and wikipedia refer to any number of things. I was looking at the US Bureau of Labor's website when I started my search.

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Originally Posted by KT.

If you can, take introductory courses in whatever you're even slightly interested in. I didn't even think I would be that interested in programming until I took the Intro class for it. Now I love it, and it's my concentration. Originally I really thought I'd like networking until I took Intro to Networking and now I'm like fuck that shit.


You should try going to the career center at like any college and ask for brochures on like the demands for different careers and which ones have more growth potential and shit.

Also I wouldn't agonize too much about preparing to go into the computer industry since you haven't even started college yet. You're going to be taking classes with kids straight out of high school who haven't prepared for shit.

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High school kids can suck a fart. I'm getting started now, but it is very difficult with slow internet and an outdated web browser. Being in the middle of the ocean is depressing.

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Originally Posted by DaiTengu

You need to pick something and move towards it. Programming is probably the easiest field to get work in, especially web technologies.

security, networking and system analysis will get you long hours for quite a few years at a helpdesk before you're able to get a job in your chosen field.

Engineering is ... well ... engineering.

Programming is always useful if you want to freelance, I really wish I would have gotten into it myself but my tiny brain just can't seem to grasp on to it.

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Want to freelance or forced to freelance? Not that I know, but browsing around gives me a bad impression about job opportunities as a programmer.

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Originally Posted by ShitFace

Maybe take a general computing course that covers everything and then decide what you like the most and specialize in it.

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I'm interested in software and systems engineering. Both offer a lot of prospects and challenges that appeal to me. I want to be able to solve something like this: http://cm.baylor.edu/ICPCWiki/attach...ProblemSet.pdf

I won't be on land until I separate from the military in December. I want to start college in the Spring, but saying that I'm going in the Summer is me being hesitant and the Veterans Affair a slow processing behemoth. For now, I'll just have to learn what I can now.

Thanks folks.

If I were you I would go into Computer Science. Everyone wants a software developer, especially mobile app developers. Mobile app development is the new "hot" career field. Almost every company wants a mobile app... so they are in high demand.

I am an SDE, so if you have any questions in ask away.

Awesome, thank you.

computertraining.com

No, actually you'll be more marketable if you are a jack of all trades. Programming/scripting, project management, networking, engineering, etc. Unless you want to pigeon-hole yourself into a niche trade and be a contractor forever (not that it's a bad thing, they make big bucks), think broader. Get an expensive piece of paper with your name on it, and get about 5 years experience in the IT world. Then people will take you seriously.

edit - expensive piece of paper = bachelor's. don't waste your time with a 2 year degree. And let a corporation pay for a master's.

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Originally Posted by Harner

computertraining.com

No, actually you'll be more marketable if you are a jack of all trades. Programming/scripting, project management, networking, engineering, etc. Unless you want to pigeon-hole yourself into a niche trade and be a contractor forever (not that it's a bad thing, they make big bucks), think broader. Get an expensive piece of paper with your name on it, and get about 5 years experience in the IT world. Then people will take you seriously.

edit - expensive piece of paper = bachelor's. don't waste your time with a 2 year degree. And let a corporation pay for a master's.

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I mean yeah I guess this is good advice if you want to spend your life as a java or web monkey but I'd rather not sit at the bottom of the software totem pole doing computer janitor work on the side

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Originally Posted by sailor jack

what the fuck is analyzation?

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also this is probably consulting-like work, designing computer systems for clients ("herp derp 1 gazillion transactions per second buy a mainframe use cics", "your website sucks and will only get 5 unique visits per month don't colocate a dual-quad-core xeon box")

I prefer the quad dodeca-core opterons.

managing 48 CPUs is fun.

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Originally Posted by sponge

I mean yeah I guess this is good advice if you want to spend your life as a java or web monkey but I'd rather not sit at the bottom of the software totem pole doing computer janitor work on the side

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I didn't say do level 1 PC Tech shit. You'll go further, faster getting a handle of everything and not being some "web monkey" coding HTML at Starbucks with your corduroy jacket and greasy jew hair.

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Originally Posted by Harner

computertraining.com

No, actually you'll be more marketable if you are a jack of all trades. Programming/scripting, project management, networking, engineering, etc. Unless you want to pigeon-hole yourself into a niche trade and be a contractor forever (not that it's a bad thing, they make big bucks), think broader. Get an expensive piece of paper with your name on it, and get about 5 years experience in the IT world. Then people will take you seriously.

edit - expensive piece of paper = bachelor's. don't waste your time with a 2 year degree. And let a corporation pay for a master's.

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Yes, I want to be paragon of knowledge of all those fields and demonstrate how exceptional I am in the application of that knowledge. The military is paying for 36 months of my college including books and housing.

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Originally Posted by sponge

I mean yeah I guess this is good advice if you want to spend your life as a java or web monkey but I'd rather not sit at the bottom of the software totem pole doing computer janitor work on the side

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I don't know if you are making cynical jokes or being very serious.

MPR honestly the best career path you're going to get is in application development. You can either start with a development company or in consulting (Jesus Christ do not ever under any circumstances go into industry.) The most valuable people on these projects are cross-functional with technical understanding and/or skill. What separates good coders from great coders is the ability to understand business requirements and work with clients, and translate technical knowledge into strong solutions that the client understands. If you can do that, you'll be managing projects in no time.

You can do DBA and help desk shit if you want to, but you'll be a commodity to the guys who pay the bills (why do you think Harner is so bitter--he's constantly outsourced to India.) Someone mentioned mobile apps and that really is a hot industry.

There are only two ways to make call-home money as a coder: grow out of the box into a business-facing role (functional, management, etc) or independently develop something valuable (durrr Facebook.) Fortunately they aren't mutually exclusive

You know, the military always needs computer workers, Mil Intelligence has an entire hacker division, even PsyOps

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Originally Posted by sponge

also this is probably consulting-like work, designing computer systems for clients ("herp derp 1 gazillion transactions per second buy a mainframe use cics", "your website sucks and will only get 5 unique visits per month don't colocate a dual-quad-core xeon box")

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Are you saying that being a "java or web monkey" is bottom of the software totem pole? LOL! Sadly mistaken. Please explain to me your hierarchy of the" software totem pole" please. I would like to hear it.

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Originally Posted by Harner

I didn't say do level 1 PC Tech shit. You'll go further, faster getting a handle of everything and not being some "web monkey" coding HTML at Starbucks with your corduroy jacket and greasy jew hair.

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Actually I will probably go further faster and actually enjoy myself while doing so being an awesome high performance C/C++ developer.

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Originally Posted by Mad Pino Rage

I don't know if you are making cynical jokes or being very serious.

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Dead serious. If you're a top-notch developer, getting involved in other fields is silly, it's like a mechanical engineer working at a mechanic's. Remarkable waste of resources. That said, the number of people this really applies to is not a majority, and you'll typically know if you're going to be a "top-notch developer" before entering university, but late bloomers happen.

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

MPR honestly the best career path you're going to get is in application development. You can either start with a development company or in consulting (Jesus Christ do not ever under any circumstances go into industry.) The most valuable people on these projects are cross-functional with technical understanding and/or skill. What separates good coders from great coders is the ability to understand business requirements and work with clients, and translate technical knowledge into strong solutions that the client understands. If you can do that, you'll be managing projects in no time.

You can do DBA and help desk shit if you want to, but you'll be a commodity to the guys who pay the bills (why do you think Harner is so bitter--he's constantly outsourced to India.) Someone mentioned mobile apps and that really is a hot industry.

There are only two ways to make call-home money as a coder: grow out of the box into a business-facing role (functional, management, etc) or independently develop something valuable (durrr Facebook.) Fortunately they aren't mutually exclusive

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This is excellent advice (itt I suck atmosfear's dick... again) except the bit about mobile apps: working on mobile operating systems or base applications (i.e. all the included-with-OS applications) is good, but I see the mobile app market as way too dependent on advertising (which is annoying, as a mobile user) or way too dependent on micropayments. Seriously, the apps that make it are few and far between, and it doesn't take a large team to write a successful mobile app (as it does to write a big, successful PC application). Chance for success seems far lower. Also: web startups. If you choose to work at one, be prepared to not have a job in a year. No dependents, no chronic health issues, no long-term debt.

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Originally Posted by Rainmann

Are you saying that being a "java or web monkey" is bottom of the software totem pole? LOL! Sadly mistaken. Please explain to me your hierarchy of the" software totem pole" please. I would like to hear it.

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Yes, and I doubt it. Although it'd be more interesting to hear your inevitably-misinformed version, the top of the pole is C and C++ (and related: Obj-C, Pascal, Ada, assemblies, ...). After that, you've got the interpreted subgroups: first VM, then dynamic, and once you've chosen between those, you're really just picking the buzzword of the day. VB became VB.NET and C#, many previously using Java are moving to Groovy or Scala. php will always be the abomination at the bottom, with ecmascript also bringing excruciating pain. Python and Ruby will be there too, but they're generally exempt from this sort of criticism because they're of great use in prototyping and very few people are actually employed using them.

The usual battle-cry is that "you wouldn't write a web application in a traditional, compiled languages, and you obviously need web applications!" Indeed, we do, but the Indians are becoming really good at churning mediocre Java programmers out of their schools for really fucking cheap. And mediocre is good enough for jobs where you're just processing and displaying some data, and inefficiencies can be dealt with by throwing additional iron at the problem. So, unless you're top-10 percent, start considering life in Hyderabad.

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Originally Posted by sponge

Yes, and I doubt it. Although it'd be more interesting to hear your inevitably-misinformed version, the top of the pole is C and C++ (and related: Obj-C, Pascal, Ada, assemblies, ...). After that, you've got the interpreted subgroups: first VM, then dynamic, and once you've chosen between those, you're really just picking the buzzword of the day. VB became VB.NET and C#, many previously using Java are moving to Groovy or Scala. php will always be the abomination at the bottom, with ecmascript also bringing excruciating pain. Python and Ruby will be there too, but they're generally exempt from this sort of criticism because they're of great use in prototyping and very few people are actually employed using them.

The usual battle-cry is that "you wouldn't write a web application in a traditional, compiled languages, and you obviously need web applications!" Indeed, we do, but the Indians are becoming really good at churning mediocre Java programmers out of their schools for really fucking cheap. And mediocre is good enough for jobs where you're just processing and displaying some data, and inefficiencies can be dealt with by throwing additional iron at the problem. So, unless you're top-10 percent, start considering life in Hyderabad.

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I agree with you that the top of the pole is C and C++, but you cannot say that one language as influential as Java is at the bottom. Nearly every major company has switched to, or switching over, to Java. Java (and other web language) developers are in high demand and companies are willing to pay big bucks for any competent developer, even if it's just "processing and displaying some data."

And yes, it is true that in there are a lot of Indians being outsourced or taking away the jobs of many American developers. However, it is quite naive to say that it is just for Java and Web developers, it is for almost every related computer field job.

Honestly, as a software developer I do not prefer any one language over the other. Every language has its benefits (and disadvantages) and are used for different purposes. But if you really want to be successful you have to have the ability to learn new languages quickly and know when/where to apply them, AND write a lot of test to make the "higher ups" happy. :)

When you say "big bucks" you should probably include a huge dose of relativity

It varies. Some pay in the 70k-90k range while others get up to 100k range.

Those are big bucks to a teacher.

Those aren't big bucks to professional services firms.

(aka you can be a big fish in a middle class pond but don't bet on having a summer house)

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

You can do DBA and help desk shit if you want to, but you'll be a commodity to the guys who pay the bills (why do you think Harner is so bitter--he's constantly outsourced to India.) Someone mentioned mobile apps and that really is a hot industry.

There are only two ways to make call-home money as a coder: grow out of the box into a business-facing role (functional, management, etc) or independently develop something valuable (durrr Facebook.) Fortunately they aren't mutually exclusive

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I actually agree with you as far as growing out into a business-friendly role. This can be done from nearly all aspects of IT. Being business "smart" is really important.

As for me being bitter about being outsourced, not exactly. But, I really don't care enough to try and defend myself. My job and resume speaks for itself.

Well I hope it also speaks Punjab and/or Hindi

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

Well I hope it also speaks Punjab and/or Hindi

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Afrikaans. :heart:

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Originally Posted by Atmoscheer

Those are big bucks to a teacher.

Those aren't big bucks to professional services firms.


(aka you can be a big fish in a middle class pond but don't bet on having a summer house)

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Lol to a teacher... you wish. I was just giving "relativity" to some starting salaries fresh out of school because that is what we were talking about in this thread. That's not including bonuses, stocks, etc.. Also, that is a lot of money considering that the average salary in America is around 45k, so dont act like that is not a lot of money. You can very well buy a summer house, or two, if you are smart with your money and dont spend it on stupid shit.

I have a cottage on a lake that I only visit in summer. Does that count?