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Thread: Religion

  1. #1
    ))) joke, relax ;) coqauvin's Avatar
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    The question here is not which is the right religion, or what God is or any of these things. The question I am posing to you, CI, is: What religion(or set of spiritual beliefs, if any) were you raised in? Have these beliefs stuck with you? In what way has this starting coloured your life? For the better or worse?

    Ok, that was many points, but I guess I'll start for you.

    My father practices the Baha'i Bahá'Ã* Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Seat_of_the_House_of_Justice.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Seat_of_the_House_of_Justice.jpg/280px-Seat_of_the_House_of_Justice.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commo ns/thumb/1/1a/Seat_of_the_House_of_Justice.jpg/280px-Seat_of_the_House_of_Justice.jpg, and my mother is Native Canadian, both of whom were active in their respective religious communities. Neither of my parents said one was better or worse than the others, and I was embraced in both communities, attaining a general understanding of each as an active, young participant.

    I would attend the Nineteen Day Feast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Bahai_star.svg" class="image"><img alt="Bahai star.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Bahai_star.svg/80px-Bahai_star.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a2/Bahai_star.svg/80px-Bahai_star.svg.png (gatherings of Baha'is in the community that was equal parts devotion, consultation on community matters and social gathering) of the Baha'is, working my rounds as a cute, intelligent kid who had a knack of reading the wordy English translations of the Baha'i prayers. I attended the Baha'i sunday school organized by my father (the chairman* of the Spiritual Assembly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Bahai_star.svg" class="image"><img alt="Bahai star.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Bahai_star.svg/80px-Bahai_star.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a2/Bahai_star.svg/80px-Bahai_star.svg.png) and learned the setup and history of the Faith, and also was required to study and make presentations on other major religions as well. I volunteered in every event that our community organized and was pretty much a model young Baha'i - I even participated in the Baha'i Fast even though I was never obligated to. I observe it to this day.

    At the same time, I would also go to Pow wow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Grand_Entry_Omaha.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Grand_Entry_Omaha.jpg/350px-Grand_Entry_Omaha.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/e/ec/Grand_Entry_Omaha.jpg/350px-Grand_Entry_Omaha.jpg, dressed in my dancer's Men's Traditional regalia that my mother made with her hands up until I outgrew it all around age 8. I took part in the Oshawa Native community, which was, oddly enough, mostly made up of white people. Loosely speaking, their claim to being native canadian had little/nothing to do with been born or descendants of native canadians, but from being descendants of white people who were so entranced by the Native way of life a few hundred years ago that they moved back to Europe and set up villages mirrored on Native American villages in North America. The meetings and way they organized the community was basically like a corporate meeting with motions and adjourning and minutes and all that jazz; it was a little surreal. I fasted as a native, attended a Sweat lodge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Sweat_lodge_at_Lake_Superior_PP.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/Sweat_lodge_at_Lake_Superior_PP.jpg/220px-Sweat_lodge_at_Lake_Superior_PP.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@co mmons/thumb/a/a8/Sweat_lodge_at_Lake_Superior_PP.jpg/220px-Sweat_lodge_at_Lake_Superior_PP.jpg ceremony, had a naming ceremony when I was 14; essentially, I was an active participant in all these things.

    Being active in both religions as I grew and developed never seemed to have a negative influence on me. Neither belief set really infringed on the other and in spite of some semi-contradictory mythologies and a few conflicting statements of beliefs, the important hearts of the messages of these religions complimented each other (which, in itself, is kind of a Baha'i belief, but I digress) fairly well. The core messages of both emphasizing respect (for yourself, for your neighbour and for your environment) and the The Golden Rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Ambox_question.svg" class="image"><img alt="Ambox question.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Ambox_question.svg/40px-Ambox_question.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/1/1b/Ambox_question.svg/40px-Ambox_question.svg.png. The social teachings of the Baha'i Faith have particularly influenced me, especially the ideas of: the independent search for truth, Bahá'Ã* Faith and the unity of religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Bahai_star.svg" class="image"><img alt="Bahai star.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Bahai_star.svg/80px-Bahai_star.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a2/Bahai_star.svg/80px-Bahai_star.svg.png, and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%...th_and_science, although the Native American view that we should respect and revere the world and environment we live in also remains a powerful influence on me.

    So again, I would like to guide this thread in the direction of engaging a discussion on people stating their beliefs, but without questioning or debating them. I am not interested in trying to prove someone's belief's wrong because of x, y, or z; I am not interested in questioning other people's beliefs, except in the narrow view of having them expand on a statement that they've already made.

    This thread is meant to be a presentation of your beliefs and how they've affected you and nothing else. So no talking about how religion is the root of all evil and how it ruins people's lives unless it is directly related to your life and development.

    I understand that religion is a deeply personal thing in your life, and this thread is not intended to question your life and your beliefs - merely to present them to the world should you wish to do so.

    *I couldn't find an internet article defining the role of the Chairman in a Baha'i Local Spiritual Assembly, so I will use my own words - their responsibilities are to ensure that all the decisions that the LSA makes are in accordance with the writings and teachings of the Baha'i Faith, and they are the principal researcher of the writings to guide some of the decisions the group makes.
    Last edited by coqauvin; 12-19-2008 at 12:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Superfly Pepsi's Avatar
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    I was not raised in any religion or church. My father's side is Roman Catholic, but he was excommunicated for his divorce from his first marriage. My grandmother attempted to get me to go on occasion, but I didn't see her enough to get rooted into the Catholic church.

    My mother went to church as a child, but she hadn't gone in fifteen years when I had been born.

    When I was fourteen(nearly fifteen), I was just bored one Sunday and started going to church. I haven't turned back since.

    For me, I feel like I'm lucky I wasn't raised in the church. I see a bunch of kids that were...and they're just so sheltered. Making my own choice of religion and beliefs allowed me to experience what was in the world without being thrown into it after high school. I mean, I know a seventeen year old kid that still doesn't know what a blowjob is.

    Also, making my own choice in this matter allowed me to question the church's beliefs. I've never been one that just accepted what I was told as truth. I'm an inquiring mind. I research and choose what I believe in. I don't agree with my church in everything...nor its members...hence why I swear...a lot.

    Overall, it's made me a better person. As a kid I had a basic idea of what was wrong and right when it came to "God's law"...and I'd chastise others for breaking it. Now I've finally learned that although your beliefs may not be similar to mine and you may do things that I frown down upon, I should love you as a person. The beliefs of a person should not dictate whether or not I like them. If you're Islamic, I'll still love you as a person...even though I don't support what you believe in.

    Now, someone might bring up that I throw my "religion" into their face on here...but I don't do it to be hurtful. I do it as a gimmick...sort of like a wrestler. It's just my way of posting. (I am pissed that someone made a gimmick account(Tidus the Almighty) to steal my own gimmick.)
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    Canned Kal El's Avatar
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    My family is so all over the chart when it comes to religion. I'm a baptized mormon and a baptized catholic. Both religions have some moral effects on me, but that's about it. I'm personally against abortion, but I respect a woman's right to choose to abort her child, it's her body, her temple, and her's to control. Not mine. How I feel about it shouldn't affect what she decides to do.

    The aspects I've gained from being influenced by the LDS church is from what they call the "word of wisdom" or some bullshit like that, which basically says what you can and cannot eat/drink. I do follow it, more for just allowing myself to give my best physically in activities such as sports or working out in the gym. I sparingly drink alcohol, I eat meat, but only what my body needs, and I avoid sugars. The one thing I could do better is cutting the caffeine back out, but after my head injury, the caffeine stimulates my mind.

    And finally, I believe there is a "higher power" but that it is involved in everything around us. I believe in karma, I may come off as an ass sometimes here in the forums, but really, I'm quite a laid back guy. I believe it is my duty in life to experience as much as I can about the walks of life, and to constantly keep changing my environment. I guess you can say I "re-invent" myself on a regular basis. My tastes are eclectic and can change without any given notice.

    I also strive to learn as much as I can about anything, and everything. I try to not burry myself deep with material possessions, I think we should travel light through life and not be weighed down with contractual obligations or anything of the like. We should be free to experience new things without having hang-ups preventing us from changing.

    I really wrote a novel and learned a bit about myself. This is going to be an interesting thread.
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  4. #4
    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    Well, Baha'i is like Muslim-derived analogue of Unitarian Universalism... so naturally it's going to jive with other religions more easily

    My father's half of the family is Catholic, and my mother's half of the family is Hindu. Both of them are rather conservative adherents of their religion, both in terms of doctrine and morality. As most of you know by now, I am now an atheist, but I came to this by way of Catholicism.

    I was raised as a Catholic since the nearest Catholic church was 2 minutes away from the house where grew up (compared to the 1.5 hours to the nearest Hindu temple), my father's family had been parishioners there for many, many years, and Catholicism is less flexible about this issue. It was hard at first for my mother to accept the fact that I wasn't Hindu, but she told me that after I said that I chose to be Catholic when I was around 7 or 8 years old, she said that it was easier for her to accept.

    That's the difference between me and most other cradle Catholics. While they were Catholics by default and were never presented with any alternatives until they were older, I was always aware of what else was out there.

    My parents have a great deal of respect for each other's faiths even while retaining their identities as orthodox, traditional adherents of their own faith. For example, my mom was good friends with the crusty old Italian monsignor that married them right up until he passed away. He and she even joked about getting her to convert, all in good spirited humor. Also, the previous archbishop of my archdiocese was a cardinal who had some high position regarding inter-religious dialogue in the Vatican. When he came to visit my church, the pastor dragged him over to my mom and made sure he knew that we had people of various faiths associated with my church.

    My parents were also essentially founding members of the first Hindu temple in the DC metro area, which has since grown from a relatively small house temple to one of the biggest Hindu temples in the Northern Hemisphere. My dad and I go to the temple whenever we get a chance, and my dad now knows a great deal about Hinduism. He often has discussions about it with my Hindu relatives. To be fair, both my parents know a great deal about many religions, and this knowledge has at least in some part been transmitted to me. I wish I knew more about Hinduism, but the unfortunate reality is that I might know more about Hinduism than many people brought up as Hindus in the US.

    All throughout elementary and high school, I remained a Catholic. I was a good pious little altar boy, and I had even expressed a potential interest in joining the seminary. At least one reason why I abandoned Catholicism doesn't even need to mentioned (). Another reason is because of I simply think that there are other more sensible explanations behind the proliferation of belief in some sort of divinity, supernatural force, God, or whatever. I've had real, deep, profound, and moving spiritual experiences in my life where I felt swept up in God's presence, as though the rest of the world melted away when confronted with this higher reality. However, I believe now that these experiences had their origins from within me rather than from without. That's not to say that they were lies, but they their origin wasn't from anything supernatural.

    In the end, I feel like I can sympathize more with people with religious beliefs than other atheists might be able to.

    I'm sleepy out of it, so my train of thought abruptly stopped. I'll continue this later if I think about it and feel inspired... if the Spirit moves me...


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    Senior Member Absolution's Avatar
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    Raised as a Protestant/Presbyterian but Church made me hate Sundays and Christianity, but I still really believed in the Abrahamic God after I stopped going (around the age of 12); and what basically happened is that I kinda just stopped praying and "talking" to God. There was no revelation or self-evaluation or anything, I simply just stopped believing.

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    I am officially Mormon (Latter Day Saints) especially when my extended family comes to visit. But I never have felt really connected with the LDS faith because here in Utah, there is a church on every street corner and its almost forced upon you. I'm not sure, but I love studying other religions and learning about them (the differences between Eastern and Western religions are really fun to get into depth about).

    But all in all, I have a very lax attitude when it comes to religion. Worship whichever higher power or divine presence makes you feel good. Buddha loves and Jesus saves, laugh and love, etc, etc.
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    Was raised christian, protestant I think, however I grew dissillusioned with the church from an early age. We didn't have much money so couldn't wear fancy expensive clothes to church like the others and they looked down their noses at us.

    I thought to myself, how can they be christian and act that way? With luck, my mum stopped forcing me to go when I was a kid, I still considered myself christian but I had a dislike for the church and other christians, it became clear to me going to church didn't make you a christian. For a time I was quite devout, my mother instilled in me the idea of treating others how you would want them to treat you, whilst not exclusive to christianity or indeed theism, it was through theism I first learned it and it has stuck with me.

    Something that has also stuck with me is a dislike for people who attend church. I know it isn't right or fair to paint all of them with the same brush, but many of the church goers I know do not practice what is preached to them and only go as a way to feel morally superior to others. Some were good though and clearly got the message, which seemed to be so lost on others and at times I did enjoy church but my whole experience was tarnished by the attitudes of the majority.

    Now I am an atheist and antitheist, however when I think back I did at times see glimpses of the good that can come of religion. Part of me wants to preach to the church goers in my village and ask them why do they seek so badly to judge others. Why do you lavish yourselves in expensive clothes and pass judgement on those who don't and think highly of yourself for doing so? Whilst I don't believe in any of it anymore, there are so many who want to but seem to have either forgotten the message or never fully understood it.

    And at its heart is a simple message of love, understanding and tolerance of others. There were some there who were good to my family, they knew we didn't have much, they always treated us like any other, helped my mum out when she was in troubles and that for me is what the church should be about. A sense of community and common love and respect amongst each other. I want to tell the church goers in my village that they need to remember that, if you say you believe in god, you accept that he can see who you really are and judges on your actions, so dressing in fancy clothes to church shouldn't make you feel superior nor give you reason to judge others.

    Whilst I don't hold onto any faith now, I hate it when others claim to hold it and to believe yet act in ways which contradict this. I dislike false faith more than true faith.

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    Official of Douchebaggery Kozzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pepsi View Post
    If you're Islamic, I'll still love you as a person...even though I don't support what you believe in.
    Not to derail here...but you do know that Islam and catholicism are not all that different right? The main differences are simply ritualistic.


    I have been raised Catholic. My mom is die-hard while my father pretty much just goes to church (sometimes) because of my mom. I used to believe in these things but now I don't, at all. I believe that the bible (etc.) brings good messages on a moral point of view but it pretty much stops there. I believe that there is some form of "God" but I don't regard it as a "Personal God", in other words I don't believe that there is a God who watches over us to make sure we act according to his "law", I don't believe there's a heaven or hell...more like something created us and just created the evolutionary spark and left it at that.
    Last edited by Kozzle; 12-19-2008 at 11:24 AM.
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  9. #9
    ))) joke, relax ;) coqauvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kozzle View Post
    Not to derail here...but you do know that Islam and catholicism are not all that different right? The main differences are simply ritualistic.


    I have been raised Catholic. My mom is die-hard while my father pretty much just goes to church (sometimes) because of my mom. I used to believe in these things but now I don't, at all. I believe that the bible (etc.) brings good messages on a moral point of view but it pretty much stops there. I believe that there is some form of "God" but I don't regard it as a "Personal God", in other words I don't believe that there is a God who watches over us to make sure we act according to his "law", I don't believe there's a heaven or hell...more like something created us and just created the evolutionary spark and left it at that.
    Kozzle, please don't invite discussion about aspects of religion. Just ask to expand on something you don't understand or are curious about - if we start talking about the differences between this religion and that, the thread will be derailed instantly.

    I would also ask you, Kozzle, whether you feel that there is an entity or being behind this creationist spark? I understand your belief that God would not be a hands-on one, but I am curious to know whether or not you think he may be keeping track of our progress?

    Also, Gismo, I can totally relate to what you're saying - my aunt used to be one of those holier-than-thou bible pushers, and on many occasions berated me for the book i read (The Redemption of Althalus being the one i remember most vividly) based on it's cover. She pushed me to go to these crazy fundamentalist christian church meetings (I don't remember the sect) where they would do this faith healing thing on the kids, slapping them on the head and crying out "The power of Christ heals you!" or something like that, and the kids would fall to the ground, writhing like they were having a seizure, spewing out gibbrish as 'tongues', tears rolling down their face as they... i don't know what was going through their heads - i was pretty spooked by it.

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    My mother's side of the family is Roman Catholic and I believe my father's side is Baptist but he doesn't really practice anything and I would consider him agnostic at best. From early childhood, I went with my mother to the Catholic Church and pretty much went to every mass from age 4 to 12/13. None of the teachings really stuck with me and I always found myself bored by the same rituals practiced over and over again. By the time I hit high school, my boredom lead me to wonder why there were so many divisions in the Christian faith. My curiosity then spread to why there were so many religions to begin with and I began studying the histories of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and the ancient mythologies of the world. From all of that, I came to the conclusion that such belief and faith in a higher being really wasn't my thing and I consider myself atheist but with a spiritual sense of the world. I also like to think I'm more tolerant of other faiths than most people who were raised in a particular faith by a hardcore parent(or parents).

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    Senior Member TPLefever's Avatar
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    My Father, as far as I know, was not raised in any church. My Mother hadn't really ever been to church, mainly because both of her parents are deaf, and it's a little hard for them to get involved in alot of things. When I was around 8, my grandmother asked if I wanted to go with her to church, and being curious, because I had never gone, I went. She went to a Mennonite church down the road from where I lived. I never really got anything from it the two or three times that I had actually gone. My family then moved, and the neighbor family were devout church-goers, and had talked to my parents about going to their church. My parents, being the nice people that they are, went to check things out. It was a simple Christian "Fellowship" church. My family and I (me having been made to go) had attended that church for a good couple years, I had been "saved", and a little while after that, had been baptised. After that, my Mom started going occasionally, but me and my Dad stayed because we had sort of an obligation, being as that we never taught anyone else how to use the audio/visual system that we had set up. I started not caring so much about it anymore, and we eventually started to make our way out of going every Sunday, leading to never going. I had thought about it alot, worked a mind-numbing job, spent alot of time doing nothing and thought about religion alot. I came to the conclusion a few years ago that I'm Atheist, being as that I can't believe anything that can't be proven to me, and that the Bible is simply a book that people get morality from, and a reason to live, die and so on. I wouldn't consider myself an Anti-theist because I don't believe that religion is bad, it's just not my thing. Being over here in Iraq, I've interacted with alot of Iraqi people, learning their culture, a little about Islam and so on. I loved working with these people, and never had a problem with them. I personally don't care what anyone believes in, I like people for who they are, not what they believe in. To each their own.

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    i was not raised in any religion

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    I believe that Jesus Christ was a good man.

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    I was raised as a Christian. Now, my family were not really involved in church, and we only went a handful of times when I was growing up. I had no option or choice in the matte, I mean, I was a little kid, what adults said was truth. It was presented to me as absolute fact, no alternatives, questions or other though processes. The grass is green, the sky is blue, It snows instead of rains when it's below 32 degrees Fahrenheit, God exists and he created everything... that was that.

    We had a Bible on the coffee table (although I don't recall anyone ever reading it), we had a few crosses around the house here and there and maybe a little wood slab hanging on the wall with a picture of Jesus on it, but we didn't really pray or say grace at dinner either. It was kind of there, as "solid fact" and just accepted, but not really super active in terms of going to church and saying your prayers every night. I didn't even know it was POSSIBLE, to NOT believe in God. I think I must have been in middle school or early high school before I learned of other religions, atheists etc...

    But then again, like most kids, I believed in Santa Claus as well. Now I know some of you out there never believed in Santa or learned the truth at a young age. Some say they never really believed, but I have a hard time believing that unless you learned not to trust people at a young age. I was very naive as a kid, no one had ever lied to me and I had no reason not to 100% believe anything that was told to me. If someone tells nearly any 4 year old that unicorn's exist right now, and that they live in Africa, you can bet your sweet ass that they will believe it, as long as everyone else plays along and doesn't tell the kid the truth. I believed it until I was fairly old, maybe 9 or 10. But I grew doubtful those last few years, and I found a receipt on top of the fridge for stuff that I had gotten last Christmas... that kind of sealed the deal. I have no idea why there was a dusty receipt on top of the fridge, or why I was looking up there.

    Santa to me was just as real as the bed I slept in and the food I ate. Never mind how he got into our house with no chimney, it was magic. I still just kind of "believed" and accepted it through high school as well, but those biology and science classes I really enjoyed... no one had ever explained the big bang theory or evolution to me before (why would they, God did it, right?). You guys will find this hilarious, I remember in Kindergarten that we actually watched a tape of how God created the earth and a basic version of the story of Adam and Eve (this was in 1989 or 1990), I think I had to take something home to have my parents sign so that we could watch it. Wow... talk about damn-near brainwashing.

    Anyway, as I grew a little older I started to question and do research more and more. In my first year of college in late in 2003, my Information Technology instructor asked if I believed in God, and I said, "Sure, I guess" which was kind of an auto-response and I didn't even think about the answer, kind of like when someone asks you "hows it going?" and you auto-respond with fine even if you are dying of cancer and your house burned down last week. Let me explain that a little, this was a small class (around 5-7 people), a very intimate setting, I had already has this guy for about 6 months, and he was ultra-cool. We viewed him as more of a peer than a "overlord teacher". We talked about religion, politics, movies, sex, anything on our free time in class. It was just like shooting the shit with your friends, so it wasn't an inappropriate setting or question at all, like you might think it would be. And I am 90% certain that he smokes pot. Plus, that is part of the college experience, to expand your mind, even though it was an IT class.

    Anyway, point being, after I said sure, he basically asked why... I just kinda shrugged my shoulders, and he guessed and said something along the lines of It was what I was told growing up and how I was raised, which he was right. I asked what he was getting at, and he said he just would have thought for sure that I would be agnostic or atheist because of how much logic and reason I used to solve any problem in class and on my projects. He went on to say there was nothing wrong with being religious (which I really wasn't I was just kind of going through the motions per se), he just figured someone like me wouldn't be.

    Which at that point, I started thinking, "wait... WHY do I believe in God". I guess at that point I had the silent doubt in the back of my mind, but didn't confront it and just answered a yes to the question regardless, but his question made me confront it. So started the journey which I have been on since 2003 of becoming less and less in belief with Christianity. It went from "I am not saying there isn't a God, but what about [insert massive proof of anything from evolution to other scientific theories]", to what I am now, which is pretty much agnostic but leaning more towards the Atheist side. I don't think I can ever say I am Atheist instead of Agnostic, because the very nature of God is unprovable. It may not be the Christian God, but there may be SOME entity of some kind.

    I have become MUCH more well read and intelligent since high school, I've had friends comment that I am almost a different (better) person than I was. In say, 10th grade in high school, if someone asked me a question I would just shrug my shoulders and say "I dunno". Now, I LOVE to hold lengthy, intelligent discussions on religion, politics and almost anything else. I do pointless research on the internet. Something clicked between 2003-2005 where I just... grew up, I guess.
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    Official of Douchebaggery Kozzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coqauvin View Post

    I would also ask you, Kozzle, whether you feel that there is an entity or being behind this creationist spark? I understand your belief that God would not be a hands-on one, but I am curious to know whether or not you think he may be keeping track of our progress?
    This is where I tend to just take the "agnostic" way out. I haven't quite decided on my belief whether it is some kind of conscious being or not but my idea behind it if it IS a conscious being is more or less an analogy of a person with an ant farm. You get this ant farm and more or less just watch it grow without directly intervening (except maybe the occasional stirring of the shit to see what happens); I don't believe that if there is a conscious God that any of our religions interpret him correctly. To me, religion was simply a tool used by the ancients to keep society in check and to keep people from killing each other (boy did that turn out wrong). I just think this being created us and is simply observing between us and a bunch of other species to see which ones worked best (another analogy would be that of a scientist with many ant farms [or other similar creatures] and observing the growth of all of them and seeing which ones turn out best).
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    Senior Member bacon ops's Avatar
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    Raised as a non-denominational Christian, under the pretenses that Man will always screw things up if given the chance.

    Thus, I'm not really a subscriber to the idea of "religion."

    I mean, religion is basically just men trying to put their own spin on God's ideas, seeing how they can benefit from it.

    Look at the pope, and Catholicism. What a joke!



    Quote Originally Posted by Kozzle View Post
    Not to derail here...but you do know that Islam and catholicism are not all that different right? The main differences are simply ritualistic.


    I have been raised Catholic. My mom is die-hard while my father pretty much just goes to church (sometimes) because of my mom. I used to believe in these things but now I don't, at all. I believe that the bible (etc.) brings good messages on a moral point of view but it pretty much stops there. I believe that there is some form of "God" but I don't regard it as a "Personal God", in other words I don't believe that there is a God who watches over us to make sure we act according to his "law", I don't believe there's a heaven or hell...more like something created us and just created the evolutionary spark and left it at that.



    So you're a Deist, basically?
    Last edited by bacon ops; 12-20-2008 at 03:57 AM.

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    Official of Douchebaggery Kozzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bacon ops View Post




    So you're a Deist, basically?

    After looking up what it is....I guess so?
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    I was raised in the progressive Jewish faith: basically, this means we do all the Jewish stuff, festivate on festivals, have barmitzvahs, learn Jewish history, etc., but we do it all according to our own rules. I think that progressive religion is the only way religion can possibly work (and even then it doesn't work well); orthodoxy is simply insane, harmful and... well, how can you stand opposed to progress? I don't get it. In my house, we didn't eat pork, but when we went out, my dad (the household's authority on Jew stuff) didn't mind if we had a ham and cheese pizza, say. He would have bacon and eggs for breakfasts at hotels and stuff. He mainly only keeps kosher because he has such a sense of guilt about breaking the rules he had to follow as a child.

    I was always taught at school that there was a god. It was more or less taken for granted. "We say this prayer to thank God for ___________" kind of stuff. At home it was reinforced gently.

    I must've been about 12 when I realised I had no faith. I remember doing my bar mitzvah (the weekend after I turned 13) and at no single point during all the rituals did I feel I was doing something that had anything to do with any god. It was all a family thing, and it remains that way. I remember thinking that this god thing was just so redundant -- it doesn't seem to explain anything, and it just causes trouble. I never had faith, really -- I was an angry, troubled kid who used to shake his fist at the heavens and ask them "Why me?" but it was always a cynical thing; I didn't really believe I was going to get an answer, I just needed to blame something. Even if it didn't really exist.

    It's hard to say how this part of my upbringing affected me. I didn't have to break away from anything because, as I say, I never really had faith, and luckily my family doesn't hate me for my atheism. My dad thinks I'm ignorant and closed-minded of other views because of how I'm "so confident" about mine and so stringent in my belief that religion is harmful, but other than that the difference in belief hasn't caused any trouble. (As a side note, I'm not sure he believes in god at all. I haven't figured out what he thinks he's achieving by teaching that there is something that even he doesn't believe in, but I think he thinks it's for the betterment of my brothers and me that he did it.) I guess some (progressively) Jewish ideas and values have imprinted themselves on me, but at this point, I've been studying philosophy for two years, with great teachers, and I've basically systematically reevaluated all my values. Any remaining Jewish "stuff" is therefore extremely subtle and hard to spot. Maybe someone other than me would be able to spot it better than I would.

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    UH OH CHINA IN TROUBLE Barack Dalai Lama's Avatar
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    Semi-long essay filled with how superior I am to the religious because the religious believe in fairytales and I'M NOT A KID ANYMORE GODDAMN IT MOTHER.

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    I was brought up in a fairly open minded Roman Catholic family, made first communion, confession and was confirmed. I began to have doubts about the religion from the age of about 10 with my first realisation that it could not be true. I stopped attending Church a few years ago as it seemed more of a family obligation than a expression of personal belief. My parents have always encouraged open mindedness and have never attempted to force their beliefs on me. Recently after continued disillusionment in the institution of the Church, my whole family has stopped regular attendance.

    My own beliefs are I think heavily influenced by the strong moral sense that was encouraged during my childhood which seems to be one of the only constants with my changing opinions on religion. I have considered, in some depth, a great number of different angles on religion and atheism. However except for a few short periods in my early teens, I have never come to the conclusion that there can be no God/s/higher-being/power etc.

    My open-mindedness concerning religion has often resulted in apathy, after the realisation that neither I, nor anyone else, can have a definite answer to all of life's mysteries I have had a tendency to put religion to one side. However I have always thought that my beliefs throughout life will grow and change, and so remain largely open minded towards different ideas, yet critically and logically analyse any that I am presented with.
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    This post was quite an effort to make, I hope it wont get lost.

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    Senior Member Crysack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kozzle View Post
    Not to derail here...but you do know that Islam and catholicism are not all that different right? The main differences are simply ritualistic.
    'Simply ritualistic'? While this is broadly correct, ritualistic differences between the two religions are quite profound and far-reaching.

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    Official of Douchebaggery Kozzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crysack View Post
    'Simply ritualistic'? While this is broadly correct, ritualistic differences between the two religions are quite profound and far-reaching.
    While that is true, rituals are separate from what your belief ultimately is, the 2 religions simply demand different things of you to show your faith (we have the 10 commandments while they have the 5 pillars of islam), in the end they believe in pretty much the same things except have different rituals to show their faith in those beliefs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kozzle View Post
    While that is true, rituals are separate from what your belief ultimately is, the 2 religions simply demand different things of you to show your faith (we have the 10 commandments while they have the 5 pillars of islam), in the end they believe in pretty much the same things except have different rituals to show their faith in those beliefs.
    Quote Originally Posted by coqauvin View Post
    Kozzle, please don't invite discussion about aspects of religion. Just ask to expand on something you don't understand or are curious about - if we start talking about the differences between this religion and that, the thread will be derailed instantly.
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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barack Dalai Lama View Post
    Semi-long essay filled with how superior I am to the religious because the religious believe in fairytales and I'M NOT A KID ANYMORE GODDAMN IT MOTHER.
    well nobody said anything about superiority but you seem to have it in spades brother

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    UH OH CHINA IN TROUBLE Barack Dalai Lama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    well nobody said anything about superiority but you seem to have it in spades brother
    I'm an atheist pointing out that you're all idiots, yeah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barack Dalai Lama View Post
    I'm an atheist pointing out that you're all idiots, yeah.
    Oh look mrdie is back.

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    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magking1971 View Post
    Oh look mrdie is back.
    no


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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    hah that's got to be insulting for whoever that actually is

    (i have my theories)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barack Dalai Lama View Post
    I'm an atheist pointing out that you're all idiots, yeah.
    hey man i never said that.
    Quote Originally Posted by <JANE> View Post
    This post was quite an effort to make, I hope it wont get lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woofness View Post
    hey man i never said that.
    He was quoting gwahir, not you.
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    Senior Member Absolution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycld View Post
    Actually that's mr die.

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    Sheriff of Paddy's captain castle's Avatar
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    hey guys look at me, I can fake intelligence by reading wikipedia and forming a really stupid opinion on religion

    also ctrl + v


    I'm super jazzed
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    My mother was casually raised in the Catholic faith and later became a practicing Catholic. My father was baptized in Vietnam as a Baptist but I don't think he really identifies himself with any religion.

    I was raised Catholic. I attended a Catholic elementary school, but much to my mother's dismay, I refused to attend Catholic junior high school. I had first communion, first confession, and was confirmed (mostly to please my mother). In high school I turned to agnosticism. Over the years I developed into an [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apathetic_agnosticism[/ame].

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    ))) joke, relax ;) coqauvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain castle View Post
    hey guys look at me, I can fake intelligence by reading wikipedia and forming a really stupid opinion on religion

    also ctrl + v


    I'm super jazzed
    I am faking intelligence by telling people how I was raised? I link to wikipedia articles so i don't have to explain what those aspects are, if people want to know about them.

    I never once stated my opinion on religion in this thread - this is simply about presenting your beliefs to others in a medium where we won't be arguing about them.

    so, um, maybe you want to work on your reading comprehension a little bit

    that goes for you too barack dalai lama

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    Sheriff of Paddy's captain castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain castle View Post
    I'm super jazzed
    Quote Originally Posted by Atmosfear View Post
    Yeah, the porn stars are the ones who are gross and creepy, not the guy who tells his girlfriends "I just like watching chicks getting their vag's pounded"

    Virgins who have never had a girlfriend are hereby banned from PS starting yesterday
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    Captain Castle: Now with the ability to fuck you into atheism
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    Holy shit you are unfunny

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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolution View Post
    Actually that's mr die.
    oh

    he's not posting like a mr. die tho


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    Roman Catholic is what I was baptized. I stopped going to Mass originally when I came to the conclusion that God was not real(same time I stopped believing in Santa). Then I attended a private catholic school for a few years, but remained an atheist.


    I know all about my given religion but I have not been a part of the organization for a loooong time
    lik dis if u cry evertim
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    windmills of your mind Think's Avatar
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    I was raised a Catholic, and was agnostic for all of that period; I got into the protestant movements in my teens and became an enthused evangelical; this eventually burned out as my rational and ethical psyche could not accept most Christian concepts, and I swung radically the other way and became a fervent Dawkins and Hitchens style atheist. I am now attaining some sort of balance.
    My lifestyle and attitudes are for all practical purposes still atheistic, but intellectually I have not rejected the idea of God totally. I am open to the idea of a supreme being. I guess my attitude is tolerant but not strongly personally inclined to belief. On the one hand I'm atheistic, but at my most theistic moments I guess I am most aligned to Unitarian Universalism.

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    UH OH CHINA IN TROUBLE Barack Dalai Lama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycld View Post
    oh

    he's not posting like a mr. die tho
    Do you know who else never posted like mr. die too?

    Hitler.

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    Raised Catholic but my family was not adamant about going to church. Had my first(and only?) communion, confession, and was confirmed. Don't know why I stopped or my parents stopped caring after that, but at least I got my Sundays back. Really don't know what I am now or what I believe in. I guess I like to read about it. Guess it would be a good idea to read the Bible and more books about philosophy.
    Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.
    Albert Einstein

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