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Thread: In defense of punctuation

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    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    Default In defense of punctuation

    "It is under these circumstances that we feel constrained to call upon you to come to our aid should a disturbance arise here the circumstances are so extreme that we cannot but believe that you and the men under you will not fail to come to the rescue of people who are so situated."

    Compare these two versions of the above quote, noting the placement of the period:

    "It is under these circumstances that we feel constrained to call upon you to come to our aid. Should a disturbance arise here the circumstances are so extreme that we cannot but believe that you and the men under you will not fail to come to the rescue of people who are so situated."

    "It is under these circumstances that we feel constrained to call upon you to come to our aid should a disturbance arise here. The circumstances are so extreme that we cannot but believe that you and the men under you will not fail to come to the rescue of people who are so situated."

    The latter was what was intended by the original senders. The former was the way the recipient interpreted it. Thus a message that was merely intended to secure support instead initiated the tragic and ineffective Jameson Raid into the then Boer colony of Transvaal (in what is now South Africa). A simple omission of punctuation was the culprit.

    This is why punctuation is so important. Punctuation serves chiefly to remove any ambiguities of meaning; where it does not do that, it guides the reader in the flow of the text. Yes, what you intend to communicate may be understood if most punctuation were to be omitted or if you were to punctuate capriciously according to your own made-up rules, but adhering to standard uses of punctuation greatly aids the reader in understanding what you have written. It also aids you in that people are more likely to pay attention to your writing if they can get its message easily.

    That said, let's start with the absolute simplest but perhaps most abused and misused grammatical device: the APOSTROPHE.



    The rules governing its usage are short, simple, and more or less invariant compared to the usage of other punctuation marks.

    1) To indicate a singular possessive noun for a noun that does not end in "s," simply add "'s."

    Examples: "The boy's toy" means "the toy of the boy." It does NOT mean "the toy of the boys." "David's bong" means "the bong of David."

    2) To indicate the possessive of a singular noun for a noun that ends in "s," simply add an apostrophe at the end of the noun. It is also acceptable to add "'s" to the end of the noun.

    Example: "Mr. James' frag" or "Mr. James's frag" both mean "the frag of Mr. James."

    3) To indicate the possessive of a plural noun:

    3a) If the plural form of the noun ends in "s," simply add an apostrophe at the end of the noun.

    Example: "The lions' nipples" means "the nipples of the lions." It does NOT mean "the nipples of the lion."

    3b) If the plural form of the noun does not end in "s," simply add "'s" at the end of the noun.

    Example: "The men's penises" means "the penises of the men."

    4) For pronouns, you make them possessive simply by adding an "s" WITH NO APOSTROPHE. Adding "'s" makes it a contraction between the pronoun and "is."

    Example: "Its" is possessive; "it's" means "it is."

    5) To contract a noun or pronoun with "is," simply add "'s."

    Example: "Your mom's a stupid fucker" means "Your mom is a stupid fucker."



    It's not hard people. That's all there is to it. PLEASE for the love of your stupid whore of a mom use apostrophes correctly. Thank you.

    PLEASE NOTE that any grammatical mistakes in the above rant are purely accidental...

    EDIT: Replaced a conjunction with a semicolon to make TOGS happy.
    Last edited by sycld; 01-07-2009 at 05:45 PM.


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    Scito Te Ipsum TheOriginalGrumpySpy's Avatar
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    The semicolon does not receive enough respect.

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    I loves sausage festival! djwolford's Avatar
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    Thank you sycld. Now if someone would just explain the whole "you're/your" situation I think all would be well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toki
    Oh, gives to me opposites werewolves that turns to humans whens the moons comes outs!
    Quote Originally Posted by Toki
    We's not goes downs that dusty roads again!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickles
    Toki is that straight vadka? It's not even noon...

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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    I wrote a guide like this once. I think I have it saved. It was my first "World of English" thread.

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    has hairy legs Janglez's Avatar
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    Why do we care about South Africa?

  6. #6
    ))) joke, relax ;) coqauvin's Avatar
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    yeah i've forgotten about 4 for years

    i hope all this wasn't inspired by the fact that my penis archimedes

  7. #7
    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janglez View Post
    Why do we care about South Africa?
    the man who raped your mother and impregnated her with your zygote is from south africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by coqauvin View Post
    i hope all this wasn't inspired by the fact that my penis archimedes
    No. It was inspired by Eats, Shoots and Leaves from which I also took the opening material.


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    Scito Te Ipsum TheOriginalGrumpySpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycld View Post
    the man who raped your mother and impregnated her with your zygote is from south africa.
    No. It was inspired by Eats, Shoots and Leaves from which I also took the opening material.
    That book is rather interesting... then drags on for more than it should.

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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    My linguistics teacher hated Eats, Shoots and Leaves.

  10. #10
    ))) joke, relax ;) coqauvin's Avatar
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    why?

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    Scito Te Ipsum TheOriginalGrumpySpy's Avatar
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    I believe the title itself is making fun of the Oxford comma. Vampire Weekend did it first.

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    ))) joke, relax ;) coqauvin's Avatar
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    who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma?

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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coqauvin View Post
    why?
    I really can't remember. I think he found a bunch of mistakes, or half-truths in it (being the very crazy genius he was) and decided that it was a shithouse authority on grammar and punctuation.

    EDIT: I dumped the class because he was insane and the course was boring.

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    Scito Te Ipsum TheOriginalGrumpySpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coqauvin View Post
    who gives a fuck about an Oxford comma?
    Apparently Lynn Truss does.

  15. #15
    ))) joke, relax ;) coqauvin's Avatar
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    apparently vampire weekend cares more about not giving a fuck than oxford commas, per se

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    Scito Te Ipsum TheOriginalGrumpySpy's Avatar
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    I guess it's noble to have a cause.

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    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalGrumpySpy View Post
    I believe the title itself is making fun of the Oxford comma. Vampire Weekend did it first.
    Look at the title again:

    Eats, Shoots and Leaves

    There is no Oxford comma there. The title is from a sentence that said something like "The panda eats shoots and leaves." The moron who wrote the sentence originally

    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    I really can't remember. I think he found a bunch of mistakes, or half-truths in it (being the very crazy genius he was) and decided that it was a shithouse authority on grammar and punctuation.

    EDIT: I dumped the class because he was insane and the course was boring.
    He might be one of those assholes that believes that things like "You can't begin a sentence with a conjunction" are real rules that should be followed for good writing rather than old wives' tales made up by 19th century school marms.


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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycld View Post
    He might be one of those assholes that believes that things like "You can't begin a sentence with a conjunction" are real rules that should be followed for good writing rather than old wives' tales made up by 19th century school marms.
    No, he wasn't that kind of person. He was the kind of person who believed that if you were going to claim to be an authority, you had to get it right. You have to know what the rules are, even if you choose not to follow them.

    He wants language use to be purposeful, and he believed (rightly, I think) that you have to know what's right in order to use language purposefully.

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    Mega Bore Atomic's Avatar
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    I went to harvard. For lunch. So there I was and I had to go to the bathroom. So I stopped some guy and asked "Hey! Where's the bathroom at?" He replies "This is Harvard. We do not end a sentence with a conjunction hanging." "Okay, where's the bathroom at asshole?"

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    I loves sausage festival! djwolford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic View Post
    I went to harvard. For lunch. So there I was and I had to go to the bathroom. So I stopped some guy and asked "Hey! Where's the bathroom at?" He replies "This is Harvard. We do not end a sentence with a conjunction hanging." "Okay, where's the bathroom at asshole?"
    I lulz'd pretty hard at that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toki
    Oh, gives to me opposites werewolves that turns to humans whens the moons comes outs!
    Quote Originally Posted by Toki
    We's not goes downs that dusty roads again!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickles
    Toki is that straight vadka? It's not even noon...

  21. #21
    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic View Post
    I went to harvard. For lunch. So there I was and I had to go to the bathroom. So I stopped some guy and asked "Hey! Where's the bathroom at?" He replies "This is Harvard. We do not end a sentence with a conjunction hanging."
    I doubt he said that, because "at" is a preposition.

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    Scito Te Ipsum TheOriginalGrumpySpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycld View Post
    Look at the title again:

    Eats, Shoots and Leaves

    There is no Oxford comma there. The title is from a sentence that said something like "The panda eats shoots
    and leaves." The moron who wrote the sentence originally
    This was an interpretation thing because I totally had it in my mind, for a bit of time, that it should have been more comically: "Eats, shoots, and leaves"
    Last edited by TheOriginalGrumpySpy; 01-07-2009 at 10:49 PM.

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    =========== KT.'s Avatar
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    Related link - Common Errors in English

    This website is mainly about the misuse of common words.

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    Now tell me why people confuse "lose" and "loose". It's very aggravating.

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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KT. View Post
    Related link - Common Errors in English

    This website is mainly about the misuse of common words.
    This site is marvellous. Thanks a lot.

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    Scito Te Ipsum TheOriginalGrumpySpy's Avatar
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    The same reason they confuse many other words?

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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    It's a pretty understandable mistake. "Lose" has a double-o sound in it, after all.

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    Holy hell. I fully agree with a sycld thread.

    !this, is an totally' amazing day
    I hear the voices inside my head. They counsel me. They understand. They talk to me.

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    pepsi reserves the right to tell cryptic to get out at any time

    it's in the CD charter

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    Ghost Poaster Woofness's Avatar
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    lol period
    Quote Originally Posted by <JANE> View Post
    This post was quite an effort to make, I hope it wont get lost.

  30. #30
    kiss my sweaty balls benzss's Avatar
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    In defence of proper spelling.

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    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benzss View Post
    In defence of proper spelling.
    In defenSe of recognizing the differences between British and American English.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Think View Post
    Atheists are quite right

  32. #32
    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    No, he wasn't that kind of person. He was the kind of person who believed that if you were going to claim to be an authority, you had to get it right. You have to know what the rules are, even if you choose not to follow them.

    He wants language use to be purposeful, and he believed (rightly, I think) that you have to know what's right in order to use language purposefully.
    Well, could you give an example of one of his criticism, if you remember one?

    Given that he's a linguist, he would most likely be at the other end of the spectrum. Linguists, as compared to those who "study English" or are in "defense of English," are more amenable to evolution and changes in language.

    For example, a sign's message that the author includes as a mistake in the book is the following:

    Customer Restroom

    She argues implicitly that it should be:

    Customers' Restroom

    I disagree. I think that "Customer Restroom" is perfectly acceptable, just as is "employee discount" or "store credit."


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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycld View Post
    Well, could you give an example of one of his criticism, if you remember one?
    Unfortunately, no sir. Can't remember for the life of me.

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    Mega Bore Atomic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    I doubt he said that, because "at" is a preposition.
    I haven't heard the joke in a while and English was a boring class.

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    I loves sausage festival! djwolford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KT. View Post
    Related link - Common Errors in English

    This website is mainly about the misuse of common words.
    You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toki
    Oh, gives to me opposites werewolves that turns to humans whens the moons comes outs!
    Quote Originally Posted by Toki
    We's not goes downs that dusty roads again!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pickles
    Toki is that straight vadka? It's not even noon...

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    windmills of your mind Think's Avatar
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    A panda walks into a bar. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

    "Why? Why are you behaving in this strange, un-panda-like fashion?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda walks towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

    "I'm a panda," he says, at the door. "Look it up."

    The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

    "Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

  37. #37
    ))) joke, relax ;) coqauvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwahir View Post
    No, he wasn't that kind of person. He was the kind of person who believed that if you were going to claim to be an authority, you had to get it right. You have to know what the rules are, even if you choose not to follow them.

    He wants language use to be purposeful, and he believed (rightly, I think) that you have to know what's right in order to use language purposefully.
    Ok well he may have been a loon, but the premise is still sound

    i mean that's the reason why i watched 5 minutes of zeitgeist and hate on people who thought it was good constantly

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    p.s. the first version of the quote is missing a comma.

    "Should a disturbance arise here, the circumstances are so extreme that we cannot but believe that you and the men under you will not fail to come to the rescue of people who are so situated."

    You're doing it wrong, scrub.

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    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie cromwell View Post
    p.s. the first version of the quote is missing a comma.

    "Should a disturbance arise here, the circumstances are so extreme that we cannot but believe that you and the men under you will not fail to come to the rescue of people who are so situated."

    You're doing it wrong, scrub.
    The first version is how the message was transmitted, and there was no comma. The presence or omission of the comma doesn't change the message's meaning, though adding a comma does assist the reader.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Think View Post
    Atheists are quite right

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