Military

[Shinysides]

Well, I'm seriously considering enlisting. I have plenty of enlisted friends that I've been talking to, but I would also like your opinions/thoughts on the matter. I won't be enlisting for at least 3-4 months as I need to prepare myself mentally, physically and emotionally. But I don't know which branch to enter. I'm seriously debating the Marines, the Navy and the Air Force. I'm probably leaning towards the Marine Corp most, but I just don't know yet. My father spent 4 years in the Navy so that's a close second for me.

I was just wondering if anyone who has served could give me any idea of what their experience was like and what branch they served in. But I don't want to limit this to just military people, I would appreciate anyones opinions on this matter.

But seriously, don't just drop in to say that I'm stupid or anything like that, and don't turn this political. I have my political views, and if I can put them away for four years of my life to serve, you can certainly refrain from posting yours just this once.

[Vengeful Scars]

Honestly man, I'm super fucking pacifist, and I wish I could enlist(I'm Type 1 Diabetic so the military won't take me).

I wish I could give you some advice, my brother is an MP and he heard it from me on that position, but more power to ya bro, If I joined I'd try for Marines or Navy myself.

[nine castles]

I was in the Air force.

If your reason for wanting to enlist is anything except wanting to sacrifice 4 years of your life (and maybe your whole life) for God and country, then you are absolutely out of your mind to even consider this.

1. Pay. This is an illusion. You will get up at 4 am and work until 6 pm, depending on your job, and if I ever did the math I'm sure I could have made a lot more money working 14 hour shifts at McDonalds. Some jobs (security forces) have even shittier hours. Keep in mind that none of the bonuses your recruiter will promise you are actually guaranteed and you can't count on anything except your base pay (which will be shitty, when you consider how much you are working). For example I paid into the GI Bill only to discover that when I was medically discharged I got no benefits, despite having paid into the program the whole time I was in. There are a lot of loopholes like that they'll use to fuck you. The upside is that your living expenses, though extremely cramped and regulated, will be paid for, so all your meager pay goes right into your pocket.

2. Adventure. There are two kinds of military jobs: Boring, and miserable. All jobs in the Air Force for enlisted personnel (aside from combat control) are boring. Everything is broken down to monotonous, brainless procedure. If you work in personnel you will have a manual that explains to you how to fill out every form. Hardly anybody in the military is actually responsible for combat, least of all in the air force. I've never been in combat (obviously) but by all accounts, it's hell, and you would have to be crazy to want to do that unless you are patriotic and want to die for god and country (in which case you are even more crazy - had to say it).

3. Relationships. If you have a boyfriend/girlfriend, you can forget about seeing him/her ever again, unless you get married. The military does not give a fuck about your romantic attachment until you are married and so the chances to see him/her will be so scarce that your relationship will drift into long distance hell and collapse. I saw it happen to a lot of guys who were in training. If you're married, you might be able to move your spouse into base housing, but if (when) you get deployed, you can kiss that goodbye too.

4. Your term of service can be involuntarily extended. Look up "Stop loss". Once you sign your enlistment forms, you are government property. Literally. I am not joking.

5. Basic training is hell. Any recruiter who sugar coats this is bullshitting you in the worst way possible. I was lucky enough to have a recruiter who warned me, but there is literally nothing that can prepare you for it, and I guarantee that you will spend your first few nights thinking you made the worst mistake of your life. The PT in the air force was lame, but that's not what gets to you. The way that your every movement is micromanaged down to the finest detail, that no matter what is going on you always have something to be rushed and freaking out about, that you can be attacked at any second (even in your sleep) breaks down your will to live. Your recruiter might tell you that instructors are not allowed to swear or touch trainees. These rules are not well enforced, especially in the dorms. I saw a first week trainee get flipped over in his bed while still asleep in it by an instructor who had discovered that he had gotten into bed with his shoes still on. You are never safe, and there is nobody who can stand up to the psychological attacks you'll get hit with. The objective of basic training is to induce a permanent state of traumatic stress disorder so that you learn to cope with unbearable stress and go on doing your duty even when the whole world is blowing up around you. It is demoralizing and degrading to your human dignity, and that is necessary that you be degraded, because war is degrading.

You need to have a clear view of the level of sacrifice you are really making here. This is not just some fun thing you do for a few years and then go back to civilian life. You have to be joining because you are willing not only to die, but to live a miserable tedious life that might end at any second in slow, gruesome death because you believe you are supporting something worthwhile. If you have any other reason for doing this, you are wrong. Period.

[Shinysides]

I was in the Air force.

If your reason for wanting to enlist is anything except wanting to sacrifice 4 years of your life (and maybe your whole life) for God and country, then you are absolutely out of your mind to even consider this.

1. Pay. This is an illusion. You will get up at 4 am and work until 6 pm, depending on your job, and if I ever did the math I'm sure I could have made a lot more money working 14 hour shifts at McDonalds. Some jobs (security forces) have even shittier hours. Keep in mind that none of the bonuses your recruiter will promise you are actually guaranteed and you can't count on anything except your base pay (which will be shitty, when you consider how much you are working). For example I paid into the GI Bill only to discover that when I was medically discharged I got no benefits, despite having paid into the program the whole time I was in. There are a lot of loopholes like that they'll use to fuck you. The upside is that your living expenses, though extremely cramped and regulated, will be paid for, so all your meager pay goes right into your pocket.

2. Adventure. There are two kinds of military jobs: Boring, and miserable. All jobs in the Air Force for enlisted personnel (aside from combat control) are boring. Everything is broken down to monotonous, brainless procedure. If you work in personnel you will have a manual that explains to you how to fill out every form. Hardly anybody in the military is actually responsible for combat, least of all in the air force. I've never been in combat (obviously) but by all accounts, it's hell, and you would have to be crazy to want to do that unless you are patriotic and want to die for god and country (in which case you are even more crazy - had to say it).

3. Relationships. If you have a boyfriend/girlfriend, you can forget about seeing him/her ever again, unless you get married. The military does not give a fuck about your romantic attachment until you are married and so the chances to see him/her will be so scarce that your relationship will drift into long distance hell and collapse. I saw it happen to a lot of guys who were in training. If you're married, you might be able to move your spouse into base housing, but if (when) you get deployed, you can kiss that goodbye too.

4. Your term of service can be involuntarily extended. Look up "Stop loss". Once you sign your enlistment forms, you are government property. Literally. I am not joking.

5. Basic training is hell. Any recruiter who sugar coats this is bullshitting you in the worst way possible. I was lucky enough to have a recruiter who warned me, but there is literally nothing that can prepare you for it, and I guarantee that you will spend your first few nights thinking you made the worst mistake of your life. The PT in the air force was lame, but that's not what gets to you. The way that your every movement is micromanaged down to the finest detail, that no matter what is going on you always have something to be rushed and freaking out about, that you can be attacked at any second (even in your sleep) breaks down your will to live. Your recruiter might tell you that instructors are not allowed to swear or touch trainees. These rules are not well enforced, especially in the dorms. I saw a first week trainee get flipped over in his bed while still asleep in it by an instructor who had discovered that he had gotten into bed with his shoes still on. You are never safe, and there is nobody who can stand up to the psychological attacks you'll get hit with. The objective of basic training is to induce a permanent state of traumatic stress disorder so that you learn to cope with unbearable stress and go on doing your duty even when the whole world is blowing up around you. It is demoralizing and degrading to your human dignity, and that is necessary that you be degraded, because war is degrading.

You need to have a clear view of the level of sacrifice you are really making here. This is not just some fun thing you do for a few years and then go back to civilian life. You have to be joining because you are willing not only to die, but to live a miserable tedious life that might end at any second in slow, gruesome death because you believe you are supporting something worthwhile. If you have any other reason for doing this, you are wrong. Period.

I appreciate that you gave your opinion on the matter, but please do not speak again. You obviously are nothing like me and have no idea what drives me. The fact that you told me my reason for serving should be God and country really just ended it there. Sorry, I appreciate that you posted, but really? Don't waste my time. And to be honest after reading this post, I am not sure you ever even served, since I know more about the military than you do apparently. Seriously, what a fucking stupid post.

[djwolford]

Well there are generally two kinds of people with military experience that I've talked to. There are those who hate it and have nothing but bad things to say about it, and those who love it, and only have a few negative things to say about it. Generally those who hate it didn't put much thought into what they wanted to accomplish in the military, and ended up with a crap MOS. From what people have told me, it's almost all what you make of it. If you dedicate yourself to it, just like any other job, you can make a decent living and still get a lot out of it.

The pay may not be extraordinary, but when you factor out all of the cost of living expenses that they cover for you or help you out with, you're still pocketing a lot more money than your average McDonald's employee. As for the relationships, I've known several people to keep strong relationships with their girlfriends or wives, but I've known of a few people who's relationships didn't hold up to the stress. Obviously that kind of thing is going to take some extra work from both sides, and if both of you aren't willing to put in that extra work, maybe the failure of the relationship is a good thing.

As for basic, I've only encountered one person so far that told me basic was hell. Everyone else has told me pretty much the same thing, that there are a few rough spots, but overall it's pretty fun. The thing that most people stress is that you've got to be able to keep your cool and not take it personally when the DS screams at you. Once again, just like anything else, it depends on the attitude that you have when you go.

All of this is pretty much what I've been told by a fair number of good friends or acquaintances, but the fact that almost all of them had very similar feelings about military life makes it seem like pretty believable information to me.

Shinysides, if you really feel like the military is the right choice for you, go for it. Just be careful and make sure that you end up with a good job that you can do something with once you're out. Oh yeah and don't get shot please.

[Shinysides]

Well there are generally two kinds of people with military experience that I've talked to. There are those who hate it and have nothing but bad things to say about it, and those who love it, and only have a few negative things to say about it. Generally those who hate it didn't put much thought into what they wanted to accomplish in the military, and ended up with a crap MOS. From what people have told me, it's almost all what you make of it. If you dedicate yourself to it, just like any other job, you can make a decent living and still get a lot out of it.

The pay may not be extraordinary, but when you factor out all of the cost of living expenses that they cover for you or help you out with, you're still pocketing a lot more money than your average McDonald's employee. As for the relationships, I've known several people to keep strong relationships with their girlfriends or wives, but I've known of a few people who's relationships didn't hold up to the stress. Obviously that kind of thing is going to take some extra work from both sides, and if both of you aren't willing to put in that extra work, maybe the failure of the relationship is a good thing.

As for basic, I've only encountered one person so far that told me basic was hell. Everyone else has told me pretty much the same thing, that there are a few rough spots, but overall it's pretty fun. The thing that most people stress is that you've got to be able to keep your cool and not take it personally when the DS screams at you. Once again, just like anything else, it depends on the attitude that you have when you go.

All of this is pretty much what I've been told by a fair number of good friends or acquaintances, but the fact that almost all of them had very similar feelings about military life makes it seem like pretty believable information to me.

Shinysides, if you really feel like the military is the right choice for you, go for it. Just be careful and make sure that you end up with a good job that you can do something with once you're out. Oh yeah and don't get shot please.

See this makes sense. This is how I look at it, not as something I'm dreading or as a last resort, but rather a new challenge and a whole lot of opportunities. Thanks djwolford, and yeah, I'll try not to get shot, same goes for you. Luckily I still have like 4 months to figure out what kind of job I want and which branch to enter.

[Atmosfear]

I appreciate that you gave your opinion on the matter, but please do not speak again. You obviously are nothing like me and have no idea what drives me. The fact that you told me my reason for serving should be God and country really just ended it there. Sorry, I appreciate that you posted, but really? Don't waste my time. And to be honest after reading this post, I am not sure you ever even served, since I know more about the military than you do apparently. Seriously, what a fucking stupid post.

Uh... well you're wrong there. Nein Castles was definitely an Air Force fag.

[Killuminati]

This really isn't very relevant but I just thought I would tell you that all the navy guys around here talk mad shit on the air force. Apparently it's pretty easy in comparison. If you want to join the Navy you better be prepared for living on a ship because that shit sucks.

[djwolford]

Haha all of the Army guys talk all kinds of shit about Navy guys. I don't know why but it always struck me as being funny.

[srsinternets]

I appreciate that you gave your opinion on the matter, but please do not speak again. You obviously are nothing like me and have no idea what drives me. The fact that you told me my reason for serving should be God and country really just ended it there. Sorry, I appreciate that you posted, but really? Don't waste my time. And to be honest after reading this post, I am not sure you ever even served, since I know more about the military than you do apparently. Seriously, what a fucking stupid post.

I have to completely agree with you here. Everything nine-castles said is complete and utter bullshit. The only way I can imagine someone thinking that is if they were discharged during boot camp... Honestly, the military, especially the Air Force is not complete fucking hell. I am currently in the Air Force, and I have to say it is the best decision I have ever made. What Wolford said is right. It is absolutely what you make of it. If you follow the rules, listen to your superiors, do what you're told, and just generally act like you want to be there, you will be fine. You're going to be given shitty jobs no matter what AFSC/MOS/Whatever you choose. Fuck, the other day I had to fucking count rivets. Thousands of little fucking tiny rivets, just because there was nothing better for me to do. I sucked it the fuck up and did it, and didn't act like a little twat the whole time, and my supervisor let me go home early. Do things without being told to, don't wait around. If you stand out in your service, you will be noticed and you will be rewarded. I'm shooting to get promoted Below The Zone, so I can make more money and work even less. You work your ass off now while you're young, and you wont have to once you're older and more distinguished.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to enlist, be fucking dedicated. Act like you're proud of your career. Wear the uniform with pride, do your job with pride, and you will be rewarded. The military isn't a shithole, unless you make it one.

This really isn't very relevant but I just thought I would tell you that all the navy guys around here talk mad shit on the air force. Apparently it's pretty easy in comparison. If you want to join the Navy you better be prepared for living on a ship because that shit sucks.

Haha all of the Army guys talk all kinds of shit about Navy guys. I don't know why but it always struck me as being funny.

Haha, you'll find that with every branch. We all talk shit about eachother. Air Force and Navy tend to get it the worst, but we all hate eachother equally . But when it comes down to it, it'd be damn hard for any one to survive without the other.

[simonj]

My views on the military are pretty irrelevant itt. All I know is I wouldn't join up during a fucking war.

[nine castles]

This really isn't very relevant but I just thought I would tell you that all the navy guys around here talk mad shit on the air force. Apparently it's pretty easy in comparison. If you want to join the Navy you better be prepared for living on a ship because that shit sucks.

Every branch talks all kinds of shit about the other branches. It's law. Air force living is definitely easier than the other branches but it's still ass compared to civilian life. I lived in a room the size of a walk-in closet with 2 other airmen for 8 months while in tech school. I'm a big guy and I enjoy my space, and so that was not fun. Our group were apparently the "easy" dorms where some other airmen had to live in barracks and shit, though I never saw that. Some people thrive in that kind of environment I guess. Pigs love to live in shit, but I don't understand that either.

As you might guess, I definitely had the wrong reasons for enlisting, and that probably contributed to why it was such a bad experience for me. I joined for no better reason than that I'd just graduated from High School and didn't know what else to do with my life at the time. That's just about the worst reason someone can have for making that kind of commitment. I suppose there could be other reasons, though I don't know what they are-- I never saw a benefit in the air force that you couldn't achieve for yourself as a civilian, and without all the negatives. The only real benefit to military life is the sacrifice you are making, and if that gives you a sense of purpose and meaning, then there you go. I didn't. And that made the negatives a lot more negative for me.

Edit: Man, I would love to meet the guy who thought basic training was "fun" and find out who his TIs were and which squadron he was in. Lucky son of a bitch.

[Mad Pino Rage]

I am in the United States Navy, and I live on an aircraft carrier. I have many mixed positive reactions towards the people and the organization. My enlistment was based on pragmatic thinking not of an idealistic nature. While there are moments that I wish I could go UA, I don't ever actually think that breaking my contract would put me in a better position. The navy has given me a better foothold on life. Unless I get some fantastic port calls and convert to a better rating, I'm leaving after my 4-year enlistment and taking advantage of the post-9/11 G.I. Bill and going to college full-time.

I thought about joining the military for about a year, enlisted into DEP, and finally shipped out to bootcamp after six months. I could have said no and never shipped out during those 18 months, but keeping firm to my commitment and believing that this is what I want to do was the biggest decision of my life.

[TPLefever]

I hate to break it to you, but nine castles is pretty much right about everything, but I must disagree with basic training. Basic training is definitely an experience I'll never forget, and it's not hard at all. The worst part for me I suppose was just being away from home for so long for the first time in my life. The only way you'll enjoy it is if you're really, really into the military scene, and take absolute pride in being in it. Like nine castles said, the pay isn't the greatest, but considering most of your expenses are covered, such as housing, electric, water and eating at the chow hall, it's not bad if you know how to otherwise manage your money. The pre-military girlfriend/boyfriend thing is true, too. Unless you're really up for having a long distance relationship, it's over. As far as finding a new companion around post, they're whores, or just don't like military guys. As far as seeing the world, unless you can actually get stationed somewhere overseas, or deployed, you'll see nothing but the states. If you do get stationed overseas, you will get a lot of time to see the country you're in, as well as surrounding countries. If you don't find this informative or find what you're looking for, sorry. I'm MP in the Army so if you have any questions or whatever, feel free.

[Shinysides]

I hate to break it to you, but nine castles is pretty much right about everything, but I must disagree with basic training. Basic training is definitely an experience I'll never forget, and it's not hard at all. The worst part for me I suppose was just being away from home for so long for the first time in my life. The only way you'll enjoy it is if you're really, really into the military scene, and take absolute pride in being in it. Like nine castles said, the pay isn't the greatest, but considering most of your expenses are covered, such as housing, electric, water and eating at the chow hall, it's not bad if you know how to otherwise manage your money. The pre-military girlfriend/boyfriend thing is true, too. Unless you're really up for having a long distance relationship, it's over. As far as finding a new companion around post, they're whores, or just don't like military guys. As far as seeing the world, unless you can actually get stationed somewhere overseas, or deployed, you'll see nothing but the states. If you do get stationed overseas, you will get a lot of time to see the country you're in, as well as surrounding countries. If you don't find this informative or find what you're looking for, sorry. I'm MP in the Army so if you have any questions or whatever, feel free.

Well, I'm looking at this as something I want to do. This is not a last resort for me. I've been to college, I've had jobs, none of it has felt right. I am looking forward to literally every part of being in the military. I'm looking forward to basic, it will be difficult, but it will also be fun, that's the kind of stuff I enjoy. I have a lot of respect for people in the military, and I would take great pride in being a part of it. I wouldn't care if they paid me a dollar a day, they cover most everything I'll need and I'm not gonna be there to make a lot of money. I'm not currently in a relationship and I don't really intend to be in anything serious while I'm in the service. And besides doing a possible tour in Iraq or Afghanistan, I don't expect to see more of the world than the base I'm stationed at. I'm joining for the pride of serving in my country's military, but I also want to serve for the structure of military life, along with the challenge of it. I want the discipline, teamwork and leadership skills that the military will give me, and I'm willing to work for these things. That, more than anything else, is why I am joining the military.

[Anonymous D]

I have a few buddies in. One is a tank mechanic in the Marines, and he is on his second tour in Iraq. I got a call from him today actually. He pretty much stays on the base. Only been out a handful of times on this tour.

The other friend is in the Air Force. He works on A-10s. He has it made. Only goes to base like for a week every other month or some shit. And they always get him a hotel room, the AF definitely has it easier from what I have seen. But there are plenty of exceptions.

Both of them like it, they both like that they are serving their counrty. I know my friend in the Marines is re-re-enlisting, and the other probably will too.

[TPLefever]

Well, I'm looking at this as something I want to do. This is not a last resort for me. I've been to college, I've had jobs, none of it has felt right. I am looking forward to literally every part of being in the military. I'm looking forward to basic, it will be difficult, but it will also be fun, that's the kind of stuff I enjoy. I have a lot of respect for people in the military, and I would take great pride in being a part of it. I wouldn't care if they paid me a dollar a day, they cover most everything I'll need and I'm not gonna be there to make a lot of money. I'm not currently in a relationship and I don't really intend to be in anything serious while I'm in the service. And besides doing a possible tour in Iraq or Afghanistan, I don't expect to see more of the world than the base I'm stationed at. I'm joining for the pride of serving in my country's military, but I also want to serve for the structure of military life, along with the challenge of it. I want the discipline, teamwork and leadership skills that the military will give me, and I'm willing to work for these things. That, more than anything else, is why I am joining the military.

That is outstanding, you're definately a prime candidate for the job. There have been alot of people that are joining for the college money, and that's the wrong answer. When they come in, they expect it to be easy and they think they should get to do college whenever they want, but that's not the case. It's Army first, THEN college, and they don't understand that. They also tend to not be so "hooah" and wind up being worthless. As far as your MOS, just please make sure that you do your research and find out EXACTLY what you'll want to do. I made the mistake of seeing MP, jumping the gun and picking that. There's definately other MOS's that would've spiked my interest, but I never did my homework. Good luck in your adventures.

[Atomic]

I was in the arng. Try to pick a job that is also a job in civilian life. After 20 or 30 years retire with good benifits. of course you should be able to re train later. Go to college on them. Do physical training before you go in. Learn all you can about boot camp before you go.

[fm2176]

Training:
I have been an Army Infantryman for going on eight years. No, I'm not a Ranger or anything other than a straight leg Air Assault 11B squad leader. That said, my Initial Entry Training was about as "tough" as they come. Marine Boot Camp gets more press, but 17 weeks on Sand Hill at Fort Benning was far from a vacation. On the other hand, it is what you make it. Nineteen people dropped out of training out of 54 or so that started. Most of those were either injured or were not emotionally stable. We also had about three that did not come back from Christmas leave. I just spent a couple months at Fort Jackson, the Army's largest basic training installation. Every weekend the PX and Burger King were filled with fresh-faced kids sporting canteens and new ACUs on pass for the day. We would spend our Saturdays training and Sundays doing barracks maintenance. That said, once you are done with training, you are a member of your respective service. Your job will vary depending on your unit, your mission and your supervisor. You will get chances to attend other training for your specific job, as well as "badge schools" such as Airborne or Air Assault and NCOES schools for professional development. Each of these will have its own curriculum but basic is the only time most service members will be considered raw recruits. It is also not as challenging as many think. You learn to work as a team and you get through it as a team. If losing some portion of individualism is abhorrent to you then you may not like it. I was a loner prior to joining and I am a loner now. That said, I can work with my peers and subordinates to accomplish what I could never do alone.

Pay and Benefits:
Your pay amount depends on how you look at things. When I first joined I received roughly $300 every two weeks. Now I make over $4700 a month, at least $1600 of which is not taxed. I work on average from 0800-1900 from Monday-Friday but tend to get off earlier on Wednesday and Friday and work from about 0900-1400 two Saturdays a month. So you could say I get paid around $19 an hour. Factor in the 20% tax advantage for the untaxed pay and it raises. Factor in the fact that I pay nothing for my wife and four children to see a doctor and pay only $3 per prescription and the hourly compensation rises even higher. I paid $43 a week for myself and two children to be covered by health insurance as a civilian. This was 2001 and I had great benefits for the time. I cannot imagine what insurance might cost now.

Did I mention I am currently in a high stress job widely known for having long hours? I can't see what is so high stress about it, though, I am my own boss much of the week, drive around in a government car and do no physical labor. Working eleven hours a day is nothing really, having made much less in the past while working three jobs. My last tour was spent in DC. I spent four and a half years there looking good for the Army and was at work on average from 0600-1600 Monday-Friday. Again, there was little physical labor, lots of downtime (we had a couple sponsored video game players who honed their skills at "work") and I got to do things no one else here will ever do, including playing with former president Bush's dogs on the presidential putting green.

My first tour at Fort Campbell had me doing my actual job as an Infantryman. I'd be at work at 0600. Do physical training from 0630-0730 (later 0800), eat breakfast and have personal time from 0730-0900 (later 0800-0930), work from after breakfast until lunch. From 1130-1300 was lunch, then back to work until I got off around 1600. I never counted PT as work, so my average day consisted of 5-5 1/2 hours of productive activities a day. Did I mention that as an Infantryman my sole task was to train and increase my knowledge during the duty day? No boss jumping my ass about effectiveness, quality of work or quantity of jobs.

As for bonuses they are guaranteed. If you are told you will get one, ensure it is in writing on your DD4/1 Enlistment/Reenlistment contract. I did not get a bonus to enlist. I was not told I would get one. I have received about $30,000 in reenlistment bonuses. I was told I would get them, ensured they were documented, and received my money between 1-4 weeks after my reenlistment.


The military is not for everyone. In this day and age, however, it is one of the last few guaranteed sources of pay and benefits. The biggest benefit during the recession is job stability. Unless you are a screw-up you have job security. Your first four years you will receive an annual pay increase for longevity. From six years forward you will receive a pay raise every two years. You will receive a cost of living raise every January and your housing and sustenance allowances will also usually go up. In the Army, you will start at the paygrade of E-1-E-4. If you start at E-1 like I did you will make $1399 a month base pay. Within six months you will get advanced to E-2, at one year you will become and E-3 and at two years you will become an E-4. It is possible to get advanced even quicker. Depending on your job you might become an E-5 Sergeant in a little as two years and an E-6 Staff Sergeant within four years. Some jobs take longer to get promoted, and other services generally do not promote as fast. I became a Sergeant at 40 months and a Staff Sergeant at 64 months. Had I cared more I would have been promoted much sooner.

Medical and dental are free for you. Family medical is free and family dental is covered by an insurance plan which is pretty good. the Post Exchange (PX) offers tax-free shopping and has competitive prices with Wal-Mart and similar stores. They also offer the Military Star credit card which may be used at Exchange activities and recently coupled with Mastercard to offer a card which may be used off-post. The Military Star card is generally easy to get, enabling a young person to establish credit and begin working on a good credit score. When I first joined, no one would offer me credit. Between steadily advancing pay and using the Star card to begin establishing credit I have purchased three vehicles and a house in less than seven years, paying off one of the vehicles and two personal loans in the process. I often joke about never being in debt prior to joining, but then again I did not have much at all back then. The PX also sells name brand clothes such as Tommy Hilfiger, Polo, Nautica and other brands for well under retail price. The manufacturers will have their MSRP (say: $50) on the label, then the Exchange price may be $35. Catch a clearance (everything at Army/Air Force Exchanges is marked down at 25%-75%, with occasional additional discounts) and you can get a great deal. I've gotten a brand new DVD recorder that sold for $250 for under $60.

Most installations also have a bowling alley, one or more clubs/bars which will feature live entertainment some nights and karaoke other nights, a golf course, auto skills shop where you can work on your vehicle, craft shop, and much more. Morale, Welfare and Recreation will have movie nights at the local recreation center and will also get sharply discounted or even free tickets to local concerts and sporting events. They will also sponsor concerts on post. These tend to be country acts with some rock groups coming as well. George Jones, Martina McBride, Charlie Daniels, Bruce Willis, and Michael Peterson are just a few I have seen.

Local amusement parks and other recreational places will also sponsor military appreciation days. Busch Gardens has offered free admission for active military and three family members for any day of the regular season for the past four or five years. Six Flags over Georgia had a military appreciation day while I was at Fort Benning in 2007. I went by myself, crammed in five roller coasters before the crowds got bad, then watched Aaron Tippen play later that evening.

I've gotten too many discounts to think of. Hotels, car rentals, flights, etc give me 10% or more off, sometimes in addition to my AAA discount. Around here, I've gotten free coffee, found a Subway that gives me a 50% discount when I'm in uniform and even had people randomly pay for something I was buying, including even a case of beer one night. Trying to politely say no was like stabbing them in the stomach, judging from how insistent they were.

Relationships:
If you join the military and you have a girlfriend/boyfriend you can keep in touch. If you are from California and get stationed in Georgia, prepare for a long distance relationship. If you decide to tie the knot, your chain of command will very likely grant you leave to get married. Every military unit I know of has a Family Readiness Group (FRG) comprised of spouses willing to help each other settle into a new post or while a unit is deployed. Speaking of which, if you are married and you deploy, your spouse will remain in on-post housing if you live there already. If you live off-post you will continue drawing housing allowance. If your spouse decides to move closer to family while you are gone you may even stand to profit from your housing allowance. For example, if you are stationed in Northern Virginia getting $2300 a month tax-free for housing and your wife moves back to Kansas where it might only cost $600 a month for an apartment, you will be pocketing $1700. You continue to get housing allowance based on where you are stationed while you are deployed.

It takes a special sort to become a military spouse. Coping with year-long deployments, the possibility of never seeing you again, sudden alerts causing you to have to be at work at midnight (for us Infantry and other quick reaction types), the chance of you not being there for childbirth or illness, etc. This is why FRGs are around, and why many spouses partake in unit activities. If you are not there, your buddies are, if they are not there their spouses are.

Education:
I've never been very big on formal education and getting pieces of paper saying I know something. I can tell you that the GI Bill is getting much better this August. Serve for three or more years on active duty and you will get 100% tuition, housing allowance for a E-5 with dependents in the area of your school and a yearly stipend of up to $1000 for books and supplies. Get a few roommates, find a cheap apartment and you can live off of the housing allowance. For example, if you go to LSU you would get $1140 a month for a place to live. Get three roommates and you might pocket around $800 a month. May still have to get a part-time job, but you are not racking up student loans and are getting a lot more money than your part-time peers.

All services also offer $4500 a year tuition assistance. I used this last year, reenlisted to go to school and ended up staying at home doing online courses, drinking beer all day, and earning two medals on the first Casual Discourse from all the posting I was doing. Many units will work around your college education, within reason. Most education centers will offer night classes and online courses are always encouraged. I've known Sergeants Major who have served for thirty years but started off with no education. By the time they retired they had two Masters degrees and never paid for anything other than books. Oh, did I mention they were also under fifty, with years of experience managing a large company of up to 20,000 people. Do the math, forty-seven years old, two Masters degrees, thirty years experience in the largest organization in the United States with steadily increasing levels of responsibility. And this is just an enlisted Soldier who started off with nothing. There is a reason why many officers go on to become successful businessmen and politicians.

Myths
Being "involuntarily extended":
Every person who joins the United States military incurs an eight-year obligation. You can join the Navy for two years or the National Guard for six, but you still have eight years from the date you enlist. Your non-active/active reserve time is considered Individual Ready Reserve (IRR). I've known some who have been called back into service because they got out after five years and still had two on IRR. If you are in a unit that is set to deploy and you are set to get out, you may get a stop-loss. I am in no way a subject matter expert, but I have known very few who have been extended past their initial period of service against their will. The ones who do might serve for a few extra months. IIRC, the military now must pay extra for those unfortunate enough to be extended. Honestly, many Soldiers are smart enough to know the system and will reenlist for a short period, get a bonus or other incentive and never have to cry about being a stop loss.

Once you sign, you are US Government Issue:
The average active duty service member enlists into the Delayed Entry Program (DEP). They take their oath and then continue to go about their daily lives until they ship for training. They might be in the DEP for up to a year. If they get injured, get into trouble or even just change their minds it is not too big a deal for them, as in they will not be looking at going to jail. MPR is right about sticking to his commitment. The ones who enlist into the DEP and then drop out are the ones who would not make it through training anyway. When it is time for you to ship out you will go back to MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station), sit down with a counselor who will go over your paperwork again and ensure you are getting what you were told, then sign another contract and take the oath again. Even then, you are not "government property". Many people just can't make it through training. They are not branded traitors, thrown in jail or slapped with dishonorable discharges. Whether they lied to enlist, lost heart in basic, broke a leg on the rappel tower and did not want to wait to recover, or just couldn't handle being told what you do, they are usually given an Entry Leave of Service (ELS). At most, it will be an Under Honorable Conditions discharge with a reenlistment eligibility code of 3, meaning they can come back in later with a waiver if they so desire. Speaking of which, if you are involuntarily discharged you will not be called back up under IRR. Your period of service ends the second you get ELS'ed.

Living conditions are horrible:
Barracks in the Army have been upgraded since the 1990s. Most installations have new barracks, and each Soldier is given private quarters with a common area he or she shares with another Soldier. In effect, you have your room, your roommate has his or her own room and you share a toilet and kitchenette. Each barracks has a recreational room usually with a pool table or two and a large TV at the least. They also have at least fully equipped kitchen with oven and ice machine. Barracks rooms are expected to be maintained and kept clean, but unless you are a screw-up you will be able to arrange your furniture how you like and keep just about any personal items you want. Your key only fits your room and the common area door and no one else in the barracks can access your room without your consent. Many barracks will have a Sergeant and lower enlisted Soldier on Charge of Quarters around the clock. They are responsible to keep order in the barracks and report safety issues or unruly personnel. If you have a broken chair, it will be replaced, if your mattress sags, you will get a new one, if the refrigerator quits, it too is replaced. All at no cost to you. Living conditions are only as horrible as you make them.

Every service hates the next:
There will always be shit-talking and interservice rivalry. That said, a person in uniform is a person in uniform. My thought is this: If I am in a bar and another Soldier in the platoon picks a fight with one of my Soldiers, I have my Soldier's back. If that guy then gets into a fight with someone else in the company I have his back. All the way up to if a Soldier wearing a 101st patch is in a fight with an 82nd guy, I have the Screamin' Eagle's back. Same if a Navy guy picks a fight with an Army guy, I've got my fellow Soldier's back, yet if a civilian is starting a fight with that Sailor the Sailor has backup if he needs it. I am Infantry, I talk shit about non-Combat Arms Soldiers. They give it right back. Can I do my job without people getting me ammo, food and water? No. Could I have made it through Baghdad without Air Force A-10s providing Close Air Support? Possibly not. If I am somewhere and a veteran of any service needs help I will do what I can. It doesn't matter if he is a Jarhead, a Squid or Chair Force. After all, I am just a dumb grunt who chose a job that provides few non-military skills and opportunities.




This is enough typing for me for the time being. Fell free to ask about anything I did not cover or did not elaborate on. Hope it helps.

[djwolford]

Jesus Christ, that was both a long and informative read. Reps on recharge my friend.

[Shinysides]

Jesus Christ, that was both a long and informative read. Reps on recharge my friend.

This. I intend to rep you for this when I can, really helpful post.

[fm2176]

For example I paid into the GI Bill only to discover that when I was medically discharged I got no benefits, despite having paid into the program the whole time I was in.

If your condition was preexisiting, you get no benefits. That is considered fraudulent enlistment. If you use an injury as an excuse to malinger you might get a moral discharge. If you got discharged with less than thirty days of service you get no benefits. I am not sure about the old GI Bill, but you might get covered under the new one. Though I don't agree with most of your post, you seem to have served long enough to have formed a strong opinion of the Air Force but not long enough to get a good view. Either way, I hope you qualify, check out the link:
https://www.gibill2.va.gov/vba/vba.c...i=&p_topview=1

I saw a first week trainee get flipped over in his bed while still asleep in it by an instructor who had discovered that he had gotten into bed with his shoes still on. You are never safe, and there is nobody who can stand up to the psychological attacks you'll get hit with.

In this day and age that is considered Drill Sergeant abuse. I don't know when you went through training, but even back in 2001 a hands-on approach was frowned upon. And this was Army Infantry training, full of cockstrong young boys wanting to become men. After I graduated training CID came to Fort Campbell to question some of us about DS abuse. If you witnessed this you should have told someone. I can bet that instructor would have been given more than a reprimand. DS abuse and assault have made the front pages of the various Military Times papers more than once over the past few years.


Also, a couple things I didn't post about:

Deployments:
I can't speak for other services. I've heard Marines deploy for six months and the Navy (and shipboard Marines) are afloat for six months or more at a time while on sea duty. Will you deploy? Very possibly. In the Army, it is highly likely but not a given. Infantry? Pack up. Armor? Your M1 Abrams is waiting for you over there. Dental Assistant? I work with one now who has been in for over seventeen years and never seen a combat tour. I think he was stationed in Germany and maybe Korea but never set foot in Iraq or Afghanistan. Check out your local Army recruiting station. You don't have to step foot inside, but look at the right shoulder of their ACUs. If there is a patch they have a combat deployment. If there is no patch they have not seen a combat deployment. Even those who have been to a combat theater are not necessarily combat veterans. More support personnel are exposed to combat now than in any other war in the past. That said, for every Soldier laying his life on the line, there are easily 10 or more who will never hear a shot fired in anger.

Hell, I am Infantry myself, and I have been stateside for five years now. I went to Kuwait, invaded Iraq, helped rebuild Kurdistan and then came home. Did the dog and pony show in DC and now I am in Baton Rouge, talking to high school kids, grilling out and drinking daiquiris. I was planning to go to Hawaii en route to another combat tour but the Army had other plans. By the time I get back to the line I will have over ten years in, with less than one year spent overseas.

As you can tell from the above statement, I am not a subject matter expert on today's deployments. I spent my first week in Iraq digging in rock salt trying to get below the surface. I spent more than a day straight on the back of an open LMTV truck with nineteen other Soldiers as part of a miles long Ground Assault Convoy (GAC). I spent my first week in Baghdad without food resupply and with little water. Drank my first Red Bull from a snack stand in Saddam Hussein International Airport (now BIAP). Later I shoveled goat shit out of hangers at Tall Afar, human shit out of an abandoned fort outside of the town of Dohala and burned the shit of myself and my compatriots. Wore the same socks for weeks with only a water washing. You haven't lived until you've rolled your socks through your hands to soften them up. After a day or two being worn in the desert they dry to the hardness of corrugated cardboard and smell like rotting vegetable matter. Spent my last few months in a tent inside the wire and though life was good. Oh, after we got the tents a Sergeant in my squad shit himself on the way back from chow, and then jumped in the outside shower just in time for a sandstorm. I guess you could say it was a shitty tour, but I didn't mind.

If anyone here is interested in reading a firsthand account of what I did and saw, check this link out. http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0...WAR?src=reddit
Staff Sergeant Woods was my squad leader, Davis, Scrugli and Gavin were my peers, and we were all part of the "Lost Boys" squad mentioned in the article.

Before I left Tall Afar was getting trailers for both living quarters and showers. A permanent dining facility was constructed and the PX was getting better stocked. Supplemental issues of socks, boots and new gear were coming in. Now there are Burger Kings and big PXs. IEDs have made it a more dangerous place, but most service members live and work inside the wire, going to a comfortable mattress and AC when off duty.

When I deployed I did not take pictures of the family. Homesickness could get me killed, and getting captured with pictures on me would only give my captors something to use against me. Funny how things have changed. I was more concerned with becoming a POW than having my head cut off. That's the difference between fighting a professional force like the Republican Guard and a guerrilla force like the insurgents. I would send letters, get all choked up, then erase them from my mind minutes later. Same with phone calls, of course we had to wait for the satellite phone to makes its rounds. Now I hear Soldiers can buy cell phones over there. If you have a family you will miss them. I was lucky in that I could turn memories on and off. Others were not so lucky and were constantly thinking of wives and children. Then there were those who thrived, usually without families. We were all a big family, so it gave them something to be part of, myself something to erase thoughts of my kids, and those who could not forget loved ones the support they needed when times were bad.

Enough about that.

Retirement:
You can retire at twenty years of service. You are given the option of taking $30,000 at fifteen years and 40% pay at twenty or forgoing the $30k cash and taking 50% at twenty. Most people in the Army retire at either E-6 or E-7. On the Infantry side, few retire below E-7, so I will base my info on that paygrade.

Retire at the paygrade of E-7 with twenty years of service and you will receive almost $2000 a month in retirement pay. An E-7 with twenty-six years will receive over $2900 a month. Each year over twenty you stay in uniform adds 2.5% to your retirement pay. You are also getting bi-annual pay increases, annual CoL increases and the possibility of promotion. If you get picked up for E-8 and retire at 28 years you will be looking at over $3500 a month. Go all the way and retire as an E-9 COmmand Sergeant Major with 35 years and you will receive over $5300 a month. Of course this will be significantly higher by the time I retire, regardless of my own paygrade. Again, look at age and you still have time for another job. Join when your seventeen and you can retire before you are thirty-eight. Do fifteen more years and you are still a young fifty-two. Officer retirement pay is even higher, but I steer clear of their pay charts so I won't get pissed off.

Going hand in hand with the statement in my first post, it is entirely for an ambitious high school dropout who's gotten his GED to join the Army as soon as he turns 17, earn a masters while in uniform and retire as a 37 year old E-8 First Sergeant with 20 years of service. A degree, over $2200 a month retirement pay, and still young enough to start another career or even his own business. Had he never joined he might struggle his first few years without a HS diploma, then work a low and eventually mid paying job until he was 65. Had he completed school and then gone to college full time he might have racked up tens of thousands of dollars in college loans only to graduate with a degree and no experience, still resorting to taking a mid paying job.



Here are the 2009 pay charts if anyone wants to do some math. Mine might be a little off. http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/mili...yPayTables.pdf




The main thing is having a plan. The military is a controversial choice and it is not for everyone. You can make more money outside of the military, but using your training and benefits to your advantage can offer you opportunities no civilian career can. I strongly feel that the Army was the best choice for me. I have never cared for formal education, worked blue collar jobs prior to joining and still make more than anyone I know who is not in uniform. This includes former schoolmates who went on to college and earned their degrees. My philosophy was that someone will always be needed to fix a car or build a house, and those jobs require experience more than education. In this day and age, many people have college degrees and they are about as common in the workforce as a high school diploma once was. You need something to set you apart and the positive attributes of military service far outweigh any perceived negative attributes, especially so far as employers are concerned. A civilian recruiter or manager knows that a veteran can be on time, at the right place and with the right attitude to get the job done.

[fm2176]

On second thought...

[Shinysides]

Well, I'm looking at this as something I want to do. This is not a last resort for me. I've been to college, I've had jobs, none of it has felt right. I am looking forward to literally every part of being in the military. I'm looking forward to basic, it will be difficult, but it will also be fun, that's the kind of stuff I enjoy. I have a lot of respect for people in the military, and I would take great pride in being a part of it. I wouldn't care if they paid me a dollar a day, they cover most everything I'll need and I'm not gonna be there to make a lot of money. I'm not currently in a relationship and I don't really intend to be in anything serious while I'm in the service. And besides doing a possible tour in Iraq or Afghanistan, I don't expect to see more of the world than the base I'm stationed at. I'm joining for the pride of serving in my country's military, but I also want to serve for the structure of military life, along with the challenge of it. I want the discipline, teamwork and leadership skills that the military will give me, and I'm willing to work for these things. That, more than anything else, is why I am joining the military.

Hmm. I got neg repped for this apparently because I don't list god as my reason for enlisting. To whoever did that, please, explain further what that has to do with anything? Oh, and as you seem to wish to remain anonymous, feel free to post anonymously. I don't care who you are, but I'd ask you to back up your views.

[simonj]

Hmm. I got neg repped for this apparently because I don't list god as my reason for enlisting. To whoever did that, please, explain further what that has to do with anything? Oh, and as you seem to wish to remain anonymous, feel free to post anonymously. I don't care who you are, but I'd ask you to back up your views.

Really?

Whoever did it deserves +rep

(there's no way they were serious)

[fm2176]

Hmm. I got neg repped for this apparently because I don't list god as my reason for enlisting. To whoever did that, please, explain further what that has to do with anything? Oh, and as you seem to wish to remain anonymous, feel free to post anonymously. I don't care who you are, but I'd ask you to back up your views.

I wouldn't hold my breath. People here love the reputation system because it gives them a means to anonymously share their opinions without opening them up to debate.

[Cryptic]

I got a neg rep that just said "red?". I think the rep system here and on just about any other board is BS. It has little if anything to do with opinion or your quality as a poster, it just lets people be asses without having to own up to it.

[djwolford]

I make it a point to let people know who I am when I rep, whether it's negative or positive. I think it's only fair.

[fm2176]

I got a neg rep that just said "red?". I think the rep system here and on just about any other board is BS. It has little if anything to do with opinion or your quality as a poster, it just lets people be asses without having to own up to it.

True.


Anyway, hopefully the info I posted helps anyone curious about the military. Many of the benefits are the same between branches, in the end it is up to the individual to decide which service is right for him. Feel free to ask about anything else.

[fried chicken]

if you have a choice to do anything other then military service I would go for it. The military is great for young people who need guidance in life. I would not recommend it as a career builder.

[srsinternets]

if you have a choice to do anything other then military service I would go for it. The military is great for young people who need guidance in life. I would not recommend it as a career builder.

...What is your explanation behind this? Do you think everyone in the military is some kind of misguided misfit? What about the people that do make a career out of it? Just a bunch of crazies, right? General Patraeus must just be in it for the guidance... Former Captain John McCain retired from the Navy, but he must have just been in it for the guidance... Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force Rodney McKinley, just another misguided punk, right? My father, a Master Sergeant. Providing for my family with his paycheck from the military for my entire life and then some. My grandfather, retired Chief Petty Officer, provided a healthy life for HIS family for THEIR entire lives with his paycheck for the military. I plan on doing the same. But we're all just misguided... Right? The fact that I grew up in an awesome environment with plenty of food, a place to sleep at night, in a great, safe neighborhood must mean that the military is a bad career choice, right?

Honestly, where do you get off saying that? Have you ever served in the military? It is a GREAT career builder, and like FM said, if you aren't a fuck up, its a constant paycheck. I didn't feel as if I needed guidance when I enlisted;Ii knew exactly what I wanted to do with my life. And now I get to do what I want to do, and have the pride of serving my country and getting to wear the uniform at the same time.

[fried chicken]

...What is your explanation behind this? Do you think everyone in the military is some kind of misguided misfit? What about the people that do make a career out of it? Just a bunch of crazies, right? General Patraeus must just be in it for the guidance... Former Captain John McCain retired from the Navy, but he must have just been in it for the guidance... Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force Rodney McKinley, just another misguided punk, right? My father, a Master Sergeant. Providing for my family with his paycheck from the military for my entire life and then some. My grandfather, retired Chief Petty Officer, provided a healthy life for HIS family for THEIR entire lives with his paycheck for the military. I plan on doing the same. But we're all just misguided... Right? The fact that I grew up in an awesome environment with plenty of food, a place to sleep at night, in a great, safe neighborhood must mean that the military is a bad career choice, right?

Honestly, where do you get off saying that? Have you ever served in the military? It is a GREAT career builder, and like FM said, if you aren't a fuck up, its a constant paycheck. I didn't feel as if I needed guidance when I enlisted;Ii knew exactly what I wanted to do with my life. And now I get to do what I want to do, and have the pride of serving my country and getting to wear the uniform at the same time.

Since you asked, I am military and not one of those pussy branches either. Basically if you think of the most cocky branch there is, then that's me. I have given advice to people before, mostly friends about joining and I told them that there's no possible way to prepare for what lies for you in the future. It's not so much the training that is the challenge, but what you decide to do and where they put you. Yeah maybe you got lucky and got to pick exactly what you wanted to do and you got that job. Well the military doesn't always work like that and they will put you wherever the hell they need you. As far as I go, I am happy where I am, I have no complaints, but be careful in the military because if you end up being one of those fuckups it will ruin the rest of your life. That is why I said that if you have a choice and have something in the private sector then go for that. The Federal Government can ruin you and you really must want to and love the military to be in it because if you decide you don't like it after the first year then you are screwed for the rest of the 7 years of your contract. All contracts are 8 years by the way no matter what way you go whether you do 2 years active duty or 3 or 8 they are all 8 year contracts for initial signup. Whatever route you decide to take good luck and I wish you a good journey. My 8 years is up soon and I am still on active duty. Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeace

[Bowzer]

Like fm2176, I am also in the Army. However, I choose a different path from the straight up enlistment option. If you would like to know more, feel free to send me a message.


Right now, the Army offers the largest enlistment bonus at 40,000 if I remember correctly. It is also by far the largest branch with the most different types of jobs. The Army would be a solid choice, as would the Navy and Air Force (or even Coast Guard). I would, however, advise against joining the Marines unless you really, really want to. They seem to become brainwashed after joining. They are also underfunded and have a tendency to die more frequently than the other branches.

[Shinysides]

After a lot of serious thought, I still have no idea which branch I want to join, although I'm leaning more towards Army or Navy now, and less so towards the Marine Corp after what I've heard from many people.

[fm2176]

Since you asked, I am military and not one of those pussy branches either. Basically if you think of the most cocky branch there is, then that's me. I have given advice to people before, mostly friends about joining and I told them that there's no possible way to prepare for what lies for you in the future. It's not so much the training that is the challenge, but what you decide to do and where they put you. Yeah maybe you got lucky and got to pick exactly what you wanted to do and you got that job. Well the military doesn't always work like that and they will put you wherever the hell they need you. As far as I go, I am happy where I am, I have no complaints, but be careful in the military because if you end up being one of those fuckups it will ruin the rest of your life. That is why I said that if you have a choice and have something in the private sector then go for that. The Federal Government can ruin you and you really must want to and love the military to be in it because if you decide you don't like it after the first year then you are screwed for the rest of the 7 years of your contract. All contracts are 8 years by the way no matter what way you go whether you do 2 years active duty or 3 or 8 they are all 8 year contracts for initial signup. Whatever route you decide to take good luck and I wish you a good journey. My 8 years is up soon and I am still on active duty. Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeace

First off, 8 years seems a long time for a young person, but is in reality a drop in the bucket. As I posted previously, I have known some who served three years or more active, got out, then got called back up under IRR. Already discussed that. It sucks, but it is a fact of life. To be honest, most of them were better off coming back in. One guy I went to Infantry training with and deployed with served a tour in Afghanistan and two in Iraq. He got out despite my offer to get him into The Old Guard and found how bad it could get. He had bought three vehicles, a house and a motorcycle while on active duty. Got out to work for the family, lost the house, had to hide the truck from repo men and last I heard he was six months behind on his Harley. Some people may look at this as an example of the Army not preparing him for the future. Thing is, he chose to be Infantry, knowing full well it offers training mainly applicable to LEO or management jobs, was not accepted into the NY State Police like he had hoped due to education, then got out to work masonry with his father, again knowing full well that he would be making substantially less. He did not hate the Army, just felt it was his time. His time came, he left, then got called back before he lost everything. I knew a Marine who worked on jets while in the service. He got out and started as an airline mechanic for $70k a year. This was ten years ago. I've known people who've used their military service to become Secret Service, security consultants, truck drivers, business managers, computer technicians, teachers, and so on.

As for screwups, I have seen very few Soldiers have the rest of their lives screwed up. One former soldier of mine had been a constant screwup for five years. He got an Under Honorable Conditions discharge. The only Bad Conduct discharges I have ever seen were given to two kids who deserted to go on a drug binge. I've yet to see a Dishonorable. In other words, unless you commit a felony or show a pattern of misconduct your future is yours. If anything, you might be better off. A General discharge sucks, but if you get that in lieu of civilian felony charges, you can count yourself lucky. Most Soldiers that screw up are given non-judicial punishment (NJP). Depending on the level, they may get reduced a paygrade or two, be given up to 45 days restriction and extra duty and have half their pay taken for two months. Sounds bad, huh? Let's see, a civilian job would fire you. You would then have to find another job without a good reference to help you. This might take months. In some cases you might even have charges pressed against you in the civilian sector. The point of NJP is that it is NOT judicial. Company and field grade Article 15s go on your record. You might have a hard time becoming CID, a Drill Sergeant or getting some other jobs. Generally, they do not affect long term promotions or career advancement in your chosen job.


The Army guarantees your job (not career field) and you can get a guaranteed station. If you select to be a 68D (Operating Room Assistant) at Fort Campbell, you will be one; unless you are untrainable (ie: can't stand needles). I've known very few who get to AIT and cannot complete it. The ones that do are usually given a second choice. I enlisted to be Infantry and go to Fort Campbell. I reenlisted to stay Infantry and go to Fort Myer. I reenlisted twice to stay in The Old Guard. Reenlisting in the Army gives you a few choices: stabilization for a year, CONUS or OCONUS station of choice, training option (switching jobs), or needs of the Army. If you join to be a 63B (Light Wheel Mechanic) and decide you want to weld, you can reenlist to become a 44B (Metal Worker), so long as the job is open. Sometimes the Army even pays a bonus to switch jobs. You cannot usually reenlist to get a new job and guaranteed duty station. You can reenlist to keep your same job and go somewhere else. This too is guaranteed. When I reenlist for Fort Myer I knew that was where I was going. The DD4/1 Enlistment/Reenlistment contract is foolproof. Again, I can't speak for the other services, but if you are guaranteed something in writing on the DD4/1 and it doesn't happen, you can have the contract considered broken and fall back to your old obligation. Hate to beat a dead horse but to reiterate, if I get out tomorrow but reenlist to go to Germany, then I am told my assignment got canceled, I can tear up the new contract and get out tomorrow. There's a little more to it, but those are the basics. I was Company Retention NCO at my last unit and know of at least one Soldier who did just that.

Will you go somewhere you don't want to? Possibly, even in the Army. Most initial term Soldiers stay at one unit, unless they reenlist to go elsewhere. Stay at one place for too long and you might get orders to go somewhere else. The Army is still big on sending people to Korea. I was on assignment to Korea. Never went, I had reenlist for The Old Guard and had not served the three year tour I was contracted for. The Army realized its mistake and fixed it. Honestly, I was prepared to go. Been back from Iraq for a year and emailed the Sergeant Major at JSA on the border with North Korea. Had I gone I would have been on the DMZ, leading tours and watching the North Koreans. Pretty cool job to me. The longer you stay in the more leeway the Army has. Gain some rank and you might get assigned to Recruiter or Drill Sergeant duty. Gain more rank and you will be placed where the Army needs you. There are hundreds of thousands of Staff Sergeants and below. Not quite so many senior NCOs. That said, if your intent is to join for three to six years and then get out, your chances of being reassigned are slim. If you are reassigned, make the most of it. Go to Korea, buy cheap suits and meet a girl to bring back. Enjoy Fort Drum with its unforgiving winter and isolated feel (for a military post).

Back to the commitment. Despite my desire to continue tradition and my love for all thing military, when I first joined I had no idea how I would like it. My longest job to that point was held for around two years. My father-in-law was in the Navy in the '60s. He got out after four years and was never called back, despite the war in Vietnam. His biggest regret now that he is in his mid-60s is that he never committed to a job. He would get a job, leave for trivial reason like more pay or a supposedly better boss, then suddenly realized he had never worked anywhere long enough to have a good retirement.


This is getting off-topic. Shinysides asked for opinions and he got them. I can talk all day about my personal experiences, but in the end it is up to the individual. I have covered pay, benefits, deployments, and a slew of other topics. I am not the most experienced, but if anyone wants a more personal example of anything I have shared I am sure I can give one.

[fm2176]

Like fm2176, I am also in the Army. However, I choose a different path from the straight up enlistment option. If you would like to know more, feel free to send me a message.


Right now, the Army offers the largest enlistment bonus at 40,000 if I remember correctly. It is also by far the largest branch with the most different types of jobs. The Army would be a solid choice, as would the Navy and Air Force (or even Coast Guard). I would, however, advise against joining the Marines unless you really, really want to. They seem to become brainwashed after joining. They are also underfunded and have a tendency to die more frequently than the other branches.

One thing I didn't touch on, and which Bowzer would be a better help with. Officers. If you don't want to work, like to shuffle papers and believe in "gentlemen", this is the job for you.

Seriously, though, Shinysides mentioned having some college. If you have enough college you can put in for Officer Candidate School once you enlist. There is even a way to enlist with OCS in your contract, where you will attend the 14 week OCS course at Fort Benning after your basic training. Bowzer went through the Reserve Officers Training Corps, IIRC. This is a four year program where you go to college and earn a commission upon graduation. Enlisted also have Green-to-Gold, where they get out after their enlistment to attend college and ROTC before getting commissioned back in. Officers make more money, though they do not get some of the education benefits and other perks. NCOs run the Army, but we all need officers to take the blame when something goes wrong.

[Bowzer]

If you wanna be hardcore, go to the recruiter and ask for an Airborne Ranger contract. Or, you could be superhardcore and ask for an 18X contract.

Because there are only 3 jobs in the military... 11B, 18B and Wanna-B.

Or if you're like me...

11A, 18A and Fucking-A

[Bowzer]

One thing I didn't touch on, and which Bowzer would be a better help with. Officers. If you don't want to work, like to shuffle papers and believe in "gentlemen", this is the job for you.

Seriously, though, Shinysides mentioned having some college. If you have enough college you can put in for Officer Candidate School once you enlist. There is even a way to enlist with OCS in your contract, where you will attend the 14 week OCS course at Fort Benning after your basic training. Bowzer went through the Reserve Officers Training Corps, IIRC. This is a four year program where you go to college and earn a commission upon graduation.

ROTC is 2-4 years (you get a full ride and then some while youre going to school).

[fm2176]

ROTC is 2-4 years (you get a full ride and then some while youre going to school).

I haven't worked with ROTC much, I stick to JROTC. I keep getting older, and they just stay the same age. Overused reference, I know, but it's my job now, for better or worse.

[Shinysides]

If you wanna be hardcore, go to the recruiter and ask for an Airborne Ranger contract. Or, you could be superhardcore and ask for an 18X contract.

Because there are only 3 jobs in the military... 11B, 18B and Wanna-B.

Or if you're like me...

11A, 18A and Fucking-A

Bowser, what more can you tell me about the 18X enlistment option? What I was able to find was very interesting.