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Thread: A stirring and evocative speech from British PM Gordon Brown

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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    Default A stirring and evocative speech from British PM Gordon Brown

    Thought I was being sarcastic, didn't you? That's what I would've thought. Where did THIS Gordon come from??

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BA2Jz7xIXw&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Gordon Brown's speech to Citizens UK[/ame]

    Of course there's some stuff in here I don't fully understand (I mean I understand it, but I tend to tune out whenever anything about taxes or the economy comes into a discussion) so I'm not endorsing everything he's saying, but where has this Brown been for the last few years? Maybe Britain wouldn't be under so much threat from that lunatic Cameron if this Brown had been showing his face a little more.

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    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    FUCK THAT SHIT GREATER WEALTH CONSOLIDATION INTO THE HANDS OF THE FEW WILL MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR US ALL OLOLOLOLOL


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    Who cares, Cleggmania shall make them both irrelevant. Or, it won't, but there's a distinct possibility that it will at least lead to electoral reform which is one thing this country desperately needs because the current system is shambolic and frankly undemocratic.

    Also I haven't actually watched the video yet.

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    λεγιων ονομα μοι sycld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonj View Post
    Who cares, Cleggmania shall make them both irrelevant. Or, it won't, but there's a distinct possibility that it will at least lead to electoral reform which is one thing this country desperately needs because the current system is shambolic and frankly undemocratic.

    Also I haven't actually watched the video yet.
    oh so that's what you brits are calling it

    well what do you expect the liberal democrats to do, dissolve the house of lords and replace them with either a directly elected upper house or one in which appointments are made by elected local government officials?


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    feel like funkin' it up gwahir's Avatar
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    in other news, i LOVE the word "shambolic"

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    Quote Originally Posted by sycld View Post
    oh so that's what you brits are calling it

    well what do you expect the liberal democrats to do, dissolve the house of lords and replace them with either a directly elected upper house or one in which appointments are made by elected local government officials?
    Essentially (and this is of course an optimistic best case scenario but hey, that's what politics is all about) a huge lib dem surge will create a hung parliament (a lib dem majority government is currently impossible). This means the other parties will need lib dem support for any policies they want to get through and a big compromise for this (backed by overwhelming public support because the public will realise that the current system does not represent them) will be a change to a system based on proportional representation or something. I can't be bothered fact checking and editing my hastily put together sentences right now because it's early o' clock in the morning but still, you get the idea.

    That aside, after watching the video I've never been more convinced that Brown is a vapid, useless robot. He's just suddenly had some sort of obama emulation program installed and is now running on a passion overdrive setting. In terms of oratory, it's better than average for a UK politician but still not great (lots of fumbling words etc) but listen to what he says. It's all style and zero substance. Broad sweeping statements which are guaranteed to push Citizens UK easily manipulated buttons with a few tiny policy details at the end which are mostly to round off an attack on the tory inheritance tax cut policy. At least he didn't call anyone a bigot.

    He's been watching Obama, that's for sure.

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    windmills of your mind Think's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sycld View Post
    oh so that's what you brits are calling it

    well what do you expect the liberal democrats to do, dissolve the house of lords and replace them with either a directly elected upper house or one in which appointments are made by elected local government officials?
    As I understand it, all the parties will end up doing this. Labour were initially thinking about a House of Lords composed of life peers (i.e. those who had achieved excellence in some field or other during their lives) as opposed to hereditary peers, but that's out of the window because the government retained the right to appoint peers and so the place is now stuffed with Labour cronies and people who made huge donations. So now, rather than devolve peerage adjudication to an independent panel/committee, we'll probably get a house elected on a 15 year cycle composed of "senators" and lose some of the balance the Lords has historically given to cheap democratic populism, all in the name of progress, see.

    Quote Originally Posted by simonj View Post
    Essentially (and this is of course an optimistic best case scenario but hey, that's what politics is all about) a huge lib dem surge will create a hung parliament (a lib dem majority government is currently impossible). This means the other parties will need lib dem support for any policies they want to get through and a big compromise for this (backed by overwhelming public support because the public will realise that the current system does not represent them) will be a change to a system based on proportional representation or something. I can't be bothered fact checking and editing my hastily put together sentences right now because it's early o' clock in the morning but still, you get the idea.

    That aside, after watching the video I've never been more convinced that Brown is a vapid, useless robot. He's just suddenly had some sort of obama emulation program installed and is now running on a passion overdrive setting. In terms of oratory, it's better than average for a UK politician but still not great (lots of fumbling words etc) but listen to what he says. It's all style and zero substance. Broad sweeping statements which are guaranteed to push Citizens UK easily manipulated buttons with a few tiny policy details at the end which are mostly to round off an attack on the tory inheritance tax cut policy. At least he didn't call anyone a bigot.

    He's been watching Obama, that's for sure.
    Labour would at least hold a referendum on electoral change either to alternative vote or some other prop. rep. system, with or without the Lib Dems. It's only the Conservatives who are trying to defend First Past The Post and yeah they'll be swayed from that if it'll get them into office.
    And ok he was very style over substance in that speech but that's the game the other two have been playing since the very beginning - the noticeable feature of this election is that only Gordon Brown has been talking substance at all (because he's a walking history of Democratic Socialism... think Mr. Die for leftist action in the West). I mean, I hate to defend New Labour but I really must call you out on accusing Mr. Brown of cheap imitation of Obama when that's what the other two have been doing from the very start - to a sickening extent. I mean seriously, one speech and you attack him on precisely the things that the British public have signally ignored in the other two.
    P.S. The Lib Dems are not our salvation.
    If the election was rigged and we got Labour again, what we'd get would be four to five years more of New Labour, the leftist wing of the We Love Thatcher party. Either we'd get more attempts to adapt leftism to right wing economic theory - like the quasi market stuff which ended with the hospital beds scandal stuff and the people-turned-away-with-cancer-having-been-given-a-check-up waiting lists stuff and the schools catchment area stuff, or we'd get a return to A Semi-Keynesian Old Labour and I really think that that would be the actual mythical ideal outcome of this election.
    Of course, all the fears about Cameron are justified - the slimiest thing is that he talks like a One Nation Conservative (which is the closest one gets in current politics to my ideological home ground) with his Big Society nonsense but he's really a Thatcherite plain and simple.
    The Lib Dems are worse than these two because either they have no idea what they're talking about or they have patently evil policies. The ONLY exceptions are the axing of the council tax, community based punishments and scrapping tuition fees and I'm not sure this stuff is economically possible without the daisies in the hair unilateralism nonsense.

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    Senior Member Hippocrass's Avatar
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    well britain, it's been nice knowing you.
    oh

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    Journeyman Cocksmith Mr. E's Avatar
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    I don't know anything about the current British political landscape.

    That is all.
    Quote Originally Posted by gina View Post
    i can't tell if we're in the throes of a troll toll (to get into the boy's soul) or if there's just one more big floppy douchebag pussywhipped idiot walkin around out there

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. E View Post
    I don't know anything about the current British political landscape.

    That is all.
    once upon a time an old fat queen sat on her egg

    it hatched, and out popped tony blah.

    then he died at the appointed time.


    THE END


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    Senior Member DAVIDSDIVAD's Avatar
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    In B4 Hussein comes in here and agrees with the speech

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    Why would your queen let this go on?

    I mean, whatever happened to the guillotine(wow first try to spell that)? All she has to do is step in and it's game over for you britfags
    lik dis if u cry evertim
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    yes
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    Oh I was expecting a guide to making meth

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    Yeah, except this isn't medieval history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonj View Post
    Yeah, except this isn't medieval history.
    wha

    you're saying the guillotine was a medieval invention?


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    I probably should have just said 'this isn't france' as I'm quite sure the guillotine wasn't (widely) used over here anyway.

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    Think, we need to talk....

    You have failed me padawan.

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    Senior Member Infernus's Avatar
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    what the fuck this isnt someone getting kicked in the balls get that poop out of here

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    Quote Originally Posted by simonj View Post
    I probably should have just said 'this isn't france' as I'm quite sure the guillotine wasn't (widely) used over here anyway.
    i'm so glad the british education system isn't failing anyone.


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    I was a stoner music student who dropped history when I was 14. I'm lucky I can even spell guillotine. Although quick research informed me that we invented an early predecessor to the guillotine which WAS used in medieval times. So suck it fag (cue your lame joke about ciggarettes and British idioms, or Bridioms)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sycld View Post
    i'm so glad the british education system isn't failing anyone.
    america's is, of course, without any flaw

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    Senior Member Hippocrass's Avatar
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    the only reason americas education system is failing is all the niggers and spics and that's a fact
    oh

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    lib dem/conservative coalition.

    right.

    well if everyone's a thatcherite like the chestertonian catholic cumdumpster claimed is suppose i shan't matter one farthing or whatever the fucking british say.


    being an american-centric moron i still don't understand how proportional representation would work. who would be prime minister and who would sit on the cabinet? synthetic personalities that are composites of each of the various party nominees in proportion to the number of votes that party received. clearly.


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    Actually the Lib Dems quite firmly aren't Thatcherite. I daresay I'm quite alone in thinking the manifesto produced by the coalition better than any of those produced by the individual parties. Between them, they command a sizable enough majority that Cameron can afford Thatcherite rebel backbenchers and still get through the coalition's "Soft Tory" policies, and yet the Tory party is large enough to combine with the lib dem right to push through budgeting. What I imagined to be the broadly affected concerns of both parties for localism and accountability (For the Tories as an expedient way of phrasing policies that are otherwise simply traditional cries for "smaller government", tax cuts for the middle and upper class, and greater toil and industry and a lower standard of living for British proles; for the Lib Dems as a claim to offer change) have actually made it through to the coalition manifesto in most areas, so I feel I need to apologise for some counts of cynicism. Last but certainly not least, Michael Gove, my very favourite Tory, whose department offered some of the most innovative proposals in this election, has been given the seat for education that it was touted may go to a lib dem.
    Of course, I still have reservations aplenty, but they're currently diluted by sheer relief that we avoided the "progressive coalition", deeply flawed as it was in every way, another Labour term, a Tory majority, and the promotion of the Lib Dems to second party; and that the horse trading ended not with the worst of both but with arguably the best. Finally, it's likely that David Miliband will be Labour leader and leader of Her Majesty's most loyal opposition, a position that he alone in that party deserves. Champagne all round.

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    windmills of your mind Think's Avatar
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    Also Sycld we're not going to get a referendum on prop rep under a Tory administration; it's going to be on the alternative vote. But if nonetheless you would like to know how prop rep would have worked in theory, please see this party political broadcast for the Social Democrat/Liberal alliance (that's right, from 1987, before the merging of the two parties):
    Last edited by Think; 05-13-2010 at 04:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Think View Post
    I daresay I'm quite alone in thinking the manifesto produced by the coalition better than any of those produced by the individual parties.
    I actually think a lot of people agree with this. America is always proud of bipartisan legislation, this is no different. We should be happy that party politics might take more of a back seat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailor jack View Post
    I actually think a lot of people agree with this. America is always proud of bipartisan legislation, this is no different. We should be happy that party politics might take more of a back seat.
    whoa whoa whoa there I said that this coalition's manifesto was good
    I'm certainly not rescinding my full blooded support for adversarial politics

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    Oh hell no. Just in this case. A new Lib/Lab pact would have been disasterous. Despite their similarities and so called "natural partnership", their differences would have just worked away with neither willing to compromise. It's a common feeling in Parliament that the biggest tensions are within parties, where people seemingly agree. If thats the case, then differences are ground to work on and focus on doing a job 50% right rather than 100% one parties way which turns out to be wasteful and detremental.
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