Somali justice in action!

**sycld** · 11-04-2008, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by gismo

Actually, good points.

Europe used to be like the middle east in regards to opposition to progress, but something changed and the power of the church lessened. What was it about Europe that allowed for this? Was christianity more accomodating for progressive change than Islam? That maybe. Was it something cultural in Europe that allowed for it? Maybe. I think there might be a bit of both, but I think we can both agree that Islam doesn't come out of this looking too good. What we were essentially debating was how crippling an influence Islam was, I wasn't too sure that it was Islam alone...but...

Why do you keep referring to Europe? In the past, what made the rest of the word any better or worse than Europe, and why do you act like it's only Europe that has become democratized and liberal?

**gismo** · 11-04-2008, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by sycld

Why do you keep referring to Europe? In the past, what made the rest of the word any better or worse than Europe, and why do you act like it's only Europe that has become democratized and liberal?

I don't think only Europe is democratized. I mention Europe mainly because once upon a time religion had a very serious hold there, but eventually the grips of religion weakened, and over the centuries great change occured, they expanded into other parts of the world, founded America etc. I am only mentioning it because I think it is the best example of a continent/area going from derranged by religion to an area that is ruled by liberal democracies.

Many Islamic states have become derranged by their religion, in the same way Europe once was. I hope that clears that up.

**sycld** · 11-04-2008, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by gismo

I don't think only Europe is democratized. I mention Europe mainly because once upon a time religion had a very serious hold there, but eventually the grips of religion weakened, and over the centuries great change occured, they expanded into other parts of the world, founded America etc. I am only mentioning it because I think it is the best example of a continent/area going from derranged by religion to an area that is ruled by liberal democracies.

Many Islamic states have become derranged by their religion, in the same way Europe once was. I hope that clears that up.

I'm just going to be frank--

What a silly thing to say. Though I'm certainly no great scholar of history, you're just revealing your own lack of knowledge.

As I said, the Middle Ages are undeservedly maligned. The Renaissance and all history that followed was a natural development of the Middle Ages and not a return to Classical thought.

Also, it's silly to think that Medieval Europe was somehow so much worse than the rest of the world.

**gismo** · 11-05-2008, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by sycld

I'm just going to be frank--

What a silly thing to say. Though I'm certainly no great scholar of history, you're just revealing your own lack of knowledge.

As I said, the Middle Ages are undeservedly maligned. The Renaissance and all history that followed was a natural development of the Middle Ages and not a return to Classical thought.

Also, it's silly to think that Medieval Europe was somehow so much worse than the rest of the world.

I will be frank, none of us have a clue what you are even on about now. I won't waste my time with you.

And a note on the crusades, be assured that the crusaders went under the guide of holy war, they might have used religion as a justification but in reality this was all about material self betterment. The crusaders killed people in Asia minor because the crusaders wanted their land. And in the latter crusaders, all pretence of religion were thrown out of the window.

**solecistic** · 11-05-2008, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by gismo

I will be frank, none of us have a clue what you are even on about now. I won't waste my time with you.

Speak for yourself. He's perfectly easy to understand.

**Hippocrass** · 11-05-2008, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by gismo

I will be frank, none of us have a clue what you are even on about now. I won't waste my time with you.

And a note on the crusades, be assured that the crusaders went under the guide of holy war, they might have used religion as a justification but in reality this was all about material self betterment. The crusaders killed people in Asia minor because the crusaders wanted their land. And in the latter crusaders, all pretence of religion were thrown out of the window.

Lets not forget all those 13 year old girls the crusaders killed for being raped.