Quote Originally Posted by Syme View Post

My point isn't that Qu'ranic verse can't be used to justify violence (some of it can), but that this verse isn't what CAUSES the violence.
I could be wrong here but I think you have completely missed or ignored the point Atmosfear was trying to make...

Quote Originally Posted by Atmosfear View Post
You can manipulate any system of belief to ignoble ends if you so desire, but the Islamic texts don't even require manipulation; they require quoting.
The idea being that it is the verses themselves which are a cause. I would say that it is a fair enough argument to make as some verses from the Qu'ran can be seen as explicitly inciting the reader to violence.

Even a quick scan through can reveal this, some examples can be found here. // http://www.submission.org/suras/sura9.htm

Obviously these are mixed in with an almost equal amount of peaceful messages and contradictions, however I am not trying to argue that it can't be cherry picked to suit a persons actions, I am merely supporting the argument that it can be seen at face value as a violence inducing text.

I don't want to argue any point too strongly as I have no great knowledge of the Qur'an or Islamic beliefs, but I felt that blatantly ignoring or denying the meaning of certain parts of it seemed foolish.

(apologies for any mistakes or incoherency, this was written in great haste)

EDIT: and before reading the above post