sailor jack, that's an incredible guess, and i think a very naive and inaccurate one.

in a way, the world needs "radical atheism" as much as it needed "radical feminism"; neither is in itself on the money, but both are much-needed kicks in the pants for the deeply religious/patriarchal world. (i won't argue that point too stringently, because it's also a bit of a guess, but quite a convincing one, i find.)

you say that "if critics (Atheists in particular) would stop using the religious extremes as a straw man for religion as a whole, the extremists would have lost their voice and credibility a long time ago"; but -- that's simply nonsense. why would they have lost their voice? they have had the overwhelming voice the world over for millennia. what we today call religious extremism was essentially the norm for a very, very long time -- basically until it was more convenient to go after things like industry and science, at which point it started to lose its grip. are you saying that, if things had been allowed to run their course, without the intervention of pesky dawkins and hitchens (etc), the trend would have continued more rapidly? that's a pretty nonsensical thing to suppose.

it's true that strawman* arguments by atheists (or feminists) does the cause little good, but they don't drastically set it back, either. religion is deeply embedded in our society's status quo. it will continue to be until is shaken out. ...which will never -- or at least not for a very, very long time, and organically, not because some atheists want it to happen -- actually happen in a substantive enough way to make a difference. which brings me to...

Quote Originally Posted by yrogerg123 View Post
How does religion "grow up?" As far as I can tell, religions are pretty intrinsically tied to their holy books, which are considered the infallible word of god.
how much do you think the average christian on your street resembles a christian from a thousand years ago? how about a hundred? what beliefs do you think they have in common? sadly, far too many people still believe evolution is bogus, but millions the world over DO believe it. and millions comfortably believe in both the christian god AND the validity of evolution. (the question of whether these are really compatible is the subject of another debate.) how about reform or progressive judaism? ever heard of that? or the muslim family that owns a kebab shop whose meat is NOT blessed ritually by an imam?

there are lots of intelligent, thoughtful religious people, and to say that a religion can't mature is to deny that fact. a few very wicked people still believe in religions from the dark ages, but that doesn't apply to all religion. basically, the way religion can mature is for people to, rather than living their lives in servitude to it, use it to enhance their or others' lives. as i said earlier: if religion is to mature with modern society, and the wisdom which humanity requires to survive the next millennium, it must be in servitude to humankind, and not the other way around.