Thread: So, it's becoming more and more acceptable....

....to start sentences with "but", "and", and "because".

I'm in favor of loosening the hat band on this rule. I think it will prevent people from having to use pretentious alternatives like "moreover...." or "futhermore....".

Although, I still won't start a sentence with a conjunction in a formal letter. If we can universally agree that it's acceptable. Then maybe in our lifetime, or our children's lifetime, we can push pedantic adverbs back to England where they belong.

Now, we see who the real nerds are....

It's been more or less acceptable for many years, now - even in formal writing (though, perhaps not formal papers specifically regarding grammar).

but who cars rite?

i use 'moreover' and 'furthermore' freely without feeling they are pretentious
they're refreshing after many instances of 'also' especially for corollaries

Originally Posted by mutton

i use 'moreover' and 'furthermore' freely without feeling they are pretentious

It's like body odor. You can't smell it on yourself

People who find words like "furthermore" pretentious generally don't have very good vocabularies or writing skills. I'm not singling gorefinger out as a poor writer (I have no idea what his skills are in that department), it's just a pattern I've noticed.

Yes, language can carry arrogance, but only when complex words are used for their own sake rather than for a good reason. For example, using "heretofore" is fairly snobby if you're talking about skateboarding, but it's not really arrogant if it's used in a legal discussion.

Writing is about using language to convey an idea on paper. Good writing is knowing which words are appropriate for conveying an idea on paper.

People call me pretentious all the time, complaining that I use words that are too big. It is annoying. Furthermore, though, I do not believe would fall into the realm of pretentious words. I say copacetic a lot though, and people hate that.

Oh for Christ's sake. The only reason you don't begin a sentence with a conjunction is because n00b English scrubs can't manage a complete sentence otherwise, more often than not. N00b English scrubs include your ass when you were in high school and your teacher let you know what was up.

Scrub.

i find that rules in english can be as meaningful when broken as they can be when obeyed.

for instance, capitalisation -- it's no laziness that compels me to leave out capitals when posting at places like this or on msn.

for instance, starting sentences with "and" or "but" -- sometimes, that's how it'll make the most sense, or how it'll best convey a point, or have the best flow. i'm very mindful of flow in my writing and more often than not it's very purposeful. i'm not going to sacrifice flow to obey rules that really don't have that much of a point.

the true masters of the english language master the mechanics and the rules and never have to sacrifice flow, tone or meaning. i might be that good some day, but i sure as hell aren't now.

Originally Posted by solecistic

People who find words like "furthermore" pretentious generally don't have very good vocabularies or writing skills. I'm not singling gorefinger out as a poor writer (I have no idea what his skills are in that department), it's just a pattern I've noticed.

Yes, language can carry arrogance, but only when complex words are used for their own sake rather than for a good reason. For example, using "heretofore" is fairly snobby if you're talking about skateboarding, but it's not really arrogant if it's used in a legal discussion.

Writing is about using language to convey an idea on paper. Good writing is knowing which words are appropriate for conveying an idea on paper.

Here here!

Also, would anyone be kind enough to give me an example of a commonly used sentence beginning with 'but' or 'and'?

I cant say I have noticed it being used.

And that's probably because you're not looking hard enough. But it's understandable, because you probably don't get out much.

I would say based on the fragment in his initial treatise, it's safe to say that foreginger can scarcely be considered an expert on this subject matter.

I know alot of words like that but noone uses them, and most of the people I hang out with would probably be like "wtf?" if I would use them.

I do like using the word "Balderdash" every now and again to get a good laugh though.

Originally Posted by Atmosfear

I would say based on the fragment in his initial treatise, it's safe to say that foreginger can scarcely be considered an expert on this subject matter.

I'm not an Expert, but I did graduate in '05 with a BA in English & Composition from a mediocre college in GA.

I try to use good grammar off the top of my head. I'm pretty effective with my books in front of me. I think most people with bac. degrees are. I write at least one formal business letter or E-mail a day at work. But the majority of my work has nothing to do with my major. So, I seem to get less and less concerned with perfect grammar as time goes on. I try to maintain comfortable, yet acceptable, grammar.


This thread is only about 41% serious.

I also worked as a reporter for the University. I think that's why I instinctively use simple sentences, and refrain from the complex and the compound.

I don't always do that though.

irregardless

Originally Posted by Pepsi

I think you mean "I try to use well grammar..."

It's been a while since I graduated from 6th grade, but I'm still pretty sure you're wrong.

Originally Posted by piranhas

irregardless

disregardfully

I think anyone who over-uses crutch words and such as "like" should be killed slowly with a lot of pain.

Originally Posted by Sir Bifford

I think anyone who over-uses crutch words and such as "like" should be killed slowly with a lot of pain.

That's a result of culture...

Does any of this matter? English is an open language anyway isn't it? So there's no absolute right or wrongs. Only different versions of traditionalism.

More troubling is trying to use Gender Ambiguous pronouns

That's small change compared to slang. I still need "Cuz, we need to get some paper stacks and quick my nigga, ya feel me? I'm all about gettin' paid for my shit, but damn...people startin to sweat me, ya dig?" translated.

Originally Posted by no_brains_no_worries

That's small change compared to slang. I still need "Cuz, we need to get some paper stacks and quick my nigga, ya feel me? I'm all about gettin' paid for my shit, but damn...people startin to sweat me, ya dig?" translated.

We need to get rich quick, do you know where I'm coming from? Every time I start attempting to become better off people always do what they can to inhibit me, you know?

Originally Posted by gwahir

disregardfully

Interesting point.

Originally Posted by Mr. E

We need to get rich quick, do you know where I'm coming from? Every time I start attempting to become better off people always do what they can to inhibit me, you know?

word.

Originally Posted by gorefinger

....to start sentences with "but", "and", and "because".

I'm in favor of loosening the hat band on this rule. I think it will prevent people from having to use pretentious alternatives like "moreover...." or "futhermore....".

Although, I still won't start a sentence with a conjunction in a formal letter. If we can universally agree that it's acceptable. Then maybe in our lifetime, or our children's lifetime, we can push pedantic adverbs back to England where they belong.

and should me or you give a shit? i mean this is the inturnets lolz!!!!!1

Originally Posted by jojo

and should me or you give a shit? i mean this is the inturnets lolz!!!!!1

replace "me" with "I" and then you are allowed to post.

Originally Posted by Mr. E

We need to get rich quick, do you know where I'm coming from? Every time I start attempting to become better off people always do what they can to inhibit me, you know?

Thank you. I need a ebonics translator. All I know is "Bitch try to play me and nows you gonna get a fuckin' hollow point from my piece" means duck.

furthermore,

Originally Posted by no_brains_no_worries

Thank you. I need a ebonics translator. All I know is "Bitch try to play me and nows you gonna get a fuckin' hollow point from my piece" means duck.

I'm not the best translator, I certainly am not fluent, but when they talk to me I have to try and pretend to know what they are saying.