FULL STORYOriginally Posted by article
"Authorities in Livingston Parish, Louisiana say a deputy acted appropriately in trying to arrest a man at a traffic stop who died while in custody."
Suspect puts drugs in his mouth; cop breaks his neck
FULL STORY
"Authorities in Livingston Parish, Louisiana say a deputy acted appropriately in trying to arrest a man at a traffic stop who died while in custody."
I doubt his necks was actually broken. On the local news here, they have been saying he died from chocking and a heart problem that was combined with the meth, and the long struggle.
Oh well, one less meth head on the streets.
I don't care if the guy was a meth head, he didn't deserve to fucking die for trying to swallow a tiny bit of the drug he was ADDICTED to in order to possibly save himself from jail. That was absolutely unnecessary amounts of force I mean jesus christ what the fuck was the officer actually thinking while doing that? The fact that you just brush that off like it's nothing disgusts me, I fucking hate the south.
LOL
why do you give a shit
Because I have morals.
I think he acted appropriately, not because the guy was a meth junkie, but because he ate his drugs and resisted arrest. You never know what a guy like that is going to do. He could have just as easily had a razor blade in his hand and tried to cut the cops throat.
I love how these stories always make the cop out to be the bad guy, and the tweaker is always the fine upstanding citizen who did nothing at all to deserve the treatment that he got, when it seems to me that nine times out of ten the officer acted responsibly to neutralize a possible threat. The guy was obviously acting odd from the very get-go.
Judging by the video the cop did everything right, the death was just unfortunate.According to CBS affiliate WAFB, the sheriff’s office says Stogner did not put his truck in park when he was pulled over. This may have led the officer to believe Stogner was planning to flee the scene. And the deputy believed Stogner was impaired.
So, wait - a guy addicted to Meth gets pulled, tries to swallow the drug, and the officer tries to prevent this, and during the struggle, the junkie dies and you're outraged that a moron did something stupid and then ended up dying?
there are two sides to police brutality. the first side would argue the cop did what needed to be done to save his life and do his job, and the second side would consider the policeman a monster who went to measures far beyond what was necessary, to a reckless degree.
this one falls into the second one imo. there's absolutely zero reason why you would ever have to put somebody in a choke hold as a cop--that's why handcuffs and other non-harmful restraining methods exist. if there was a weapon present or any suspicion of a weapon being present, then i would relinquish my contempt for this particular cop. however, if somebody puts a bag of drugs in their mouth to try and evade arrest, you don't fucking choke them which may or may not have had anything to do with the man's death.
to add contrast, if for example the man in the car started reaching for something in the glove box suspiciously, i wouldn't blame the cop for rocking the dude in the face.
the point is, if nobody is in imminent danger of being injured, there is zero reason to use potentially life-threatening levels of force. getting a bag of meth from a guy's mouth so you can meet your arrest quota hardly qualifies as justification for possibly contributing to his death.
I got my allowance but I spent it all on ice cream
I agree. Putting him in handcuffs would prevent him from swallowing.
Did you even watch the video? The cop tried to get control of the guy, who swallowed some drugs and wouldn't open his give up his hands for anything. To top it all off, the guy appeared to have something in his hand and wouldn't open it to let the cop see. Like I said before, the dude was strung out, and could have easily had a small knife or razor blade in his hand. I think the cop acted very responsibly in not only in making sure that he stayed safe, but also in subduing the suspect.
The guy struggled with the cop instead of giving him his hands to be cuffed, it's his fault 100%.
Bingo. Sure faesce, the cop may not have needed to put him in a chokehold, but you can't just slap cuffs on someone thats struggling... since thats why they're struggling in the first place. Its not like its some simple 2-second-task unless they're obeying the officer.
And unless the cop had him in cuffs the very second the man stepped out of the car, this would have happened anyways.
Err, I'm pretty sure cops are trained that choking a guy is not an appropriate take-down measure when a suspect is resisting arrest...
No, the tweaker is obviously a dangerous guy that should be taken off the street, but there's a reason why police officers are trained in how to subdue potentially dangerous suspects so as to avoid accidental deaths like this. Again, I don't think that grabbing someone's neck and choking them is a part of this training.
It's clear that the one and only reason why he grabbed his throat was not to subdue him, as you seem to be claiming, but to try to get him to spit out what he put in his mouth.
Also, dj, aren't you a tweaker too?
Last edited by sycld; 07-14-2009 at 11:44 AM.
PANDAS
If you don't like them, then get the fuck out.
no i didnt watch the video or read the article
just going by what was said in the thread
edit:
i don't think choking somebody because they may or may not have a bag of drugs in their mouth that they're trying to swallow is acceptable
it is pretty common though for officers to do it, even though it's shady imo
Last edited by faesce; 07-14-2009 at 12:01 PM.
I got my allowance but I spent it all on ice cream
Everyone needs to watch the video before posting.
This cop has probably sucessfully choked hundreds of methheads before. It's just a shame this guy had a weak spine.
Ddint they say he MAY have a broken neck in the video? But he definitely had a pre-existing heart condition, that with the meth and the 6 minute struggle got his heart pumping too fast?
Just wondering.
And the local news hasnt said that he had a broken neck (I live pretty close to where this happened, so its all over the news.) If you ask me, this is some kind of stupid witch hunt.
Are you kidding?
From a reputable source, like RawStory.com? How could this possibly be a witch hunt.
Yes, but I know how to act when I get pulled over by the cops to avoid getting hurt or killed. What's next, a video of a guy pulling a gun on a cop and getting shot and the cop being made to look like a bad guy for shooting?
x2
in the text from raw story accompanying the video:
it's a preliminary report, but obviously this guy's neck somehow got broken along the way.Stogner died along Interstate 12. Preliminary results from the coroner show that Stogner died from “severe coronary artery disease, an enlarged heart, and a fracture of the hyoid bone in his neck.”
to be fair, the video clip was from Fox News, hardly an organization with a reputation for being slanted against law enforcement, and that clip alone provided all the relevant details to this story (aside from the coronary report which confirms that his neck was broken).
that's not a fair comparisson. if someone pulls a gun on a cop, the danger is clear. however, in this instance, the struggle which resulted in the guy's death was not one in which the cop was either defending himself or trying to subdue the suspect. he was choking the suspect to prevent him from swallowing the substance he popped in his mouth.
that's not to say that the officer should neccesarily be charged, or that the charges should be of a certain severity:
the question, of course, is how culpable, if at all, was the officer, and how severe the charges (if any) should be brought against against him. maybe even professionals will not always act correctly in the heat of the moment. also, studies have shown that there might be flaws in how police officers are trained. if this is true, then this one officer should not be made into a sacrificial sheep for covering up flaws in the system (see also: lyindie england who was made into a scpe-goat for the governmental condoning and encourgement of torture).
nonetheless, i don't see how anyone could say that the officer did everything correctly.
PANDAS
If you don't like them, then get the fuck out.
Well, yeah, ideally people won't get killed when the police are trying to talk at them.
But people - police included - are stupid.
How was the cop supposed to know what the guy put in his mouth is what I'm getting at though. The dude wouldn't give the cop his hand and wouldn't show what was in it. Like I said earlier it could have easily been a razor blade, then he could have
a) killed the cop with it
b) swallowed it and killed himself
I'd much rather see a story about a guy getting his neck broke on accident than see another story about a dead cop. It's a fair comparison because if the guy had a gun he could have been a threat to the officer, and if he had a small knife or blade he could have been a threat.
How is anything placed in his mouth going to be a threat to the cop?
What's he going to do with a blade in his mouth? Spit it at the cop like a bullet? He'd have to get it into his hands first to be of any danger to the cop, and the cop could have check his mouth after the suspect was restrained.
And if the cop was trying to preven the guy from killing himself, he obviously failed in this regard.
Well it's not like he intently broke the guy's neck. It's still his job to protect the guy to the best of his ability, so yeah he failed to do that but it could be argued that he should at least try to keep him from swallowing whatever he had. The same could be said if the cop knew that it was drugs, the dude could have easily swallowed a greater than lethal amount and died.
The thing is that the guy was acting erratic and the cop didn't know what the dude was doing, I still think he made the right call.
Edit - As far as a razor in the mouth goes, the cop still didn't have his hands so there was still the possibility that the guy would reach for it and then it becomes a threat again. Like I've been saying I don't blame him for not taking chances with a strung out guy who is acting crazy. I see stories on the news on an almost daily basis about some drugged up idiot killing a cop, and I'm glad that this didn't wind up being another one.
Again: cops are trained in effective take-down techniques that minimize the chance for permanent injury or death on the suspect's part but are still effective in incapcitating suspects of any size relative to the officer.
Strangling someone is not such a technique, and strangling the suspect had nothing to do with incapacitating the guy.
EDIT: I have to say one thing though: the one way in which I am most disappointed in media coverage of these issues is that they never have third-party disinterested "experts" analyze the situation and say what the officer in concern did right or wrong.
Last edited by sycld; 07-14-2009 at 03:26 PM.
PANDAS
If you don't like them, then get the fuck out.
Looks like it is open season on tweakers in Louisiana.
E: And that is a good thing.
http://www.wafb.com/global/story.asp?s=10659651
Last edited by piranhas; 07-14-2009 at 03:16 PM.
so officers should use potentially lethal force to prevent the unconfirmed suspicion that someone might try to hurt themselves. lol.
if the cop thought he was in danger because of what was in the meth user's hand, he could have pulled a gun on him and commanded him out of the car and on to the ground until backup arrived. it's that simple. his actions had nothing to do with "not wanting to risk injury/take chances" as the choke hold was performed to extract the drugs from his mouth, not to prevent injury (which choke holds fail marvelously at assuming blades are present, as i'm certain syme would agree)
my PoV on this issue is consistent with the majority of law enforcement's on speeding bikes in that if you stop the driver, you'll kill him. and unless he's putting other people in direct danger, his breaking the law does not warrant death by the government's hand.
the same applies to this--the drugs in his mouth did not warrant life threatening action as he was not putting anybody in direct danger. if he did indeed have a razor, like i said before, the cop should've taken a more intelligent course of action.
edit: still didnt watch the video suck it
Last edited by faesce; 07-14-2009 at 03:28 PM.
I got my allowance but I spent it all on ice cream
No, like I said it was quite unfortunate that the guy died, but I don't think that the cop set out to kill him. The cop made a bad decision that could have easily saved his life, it's not like he had all day to think about what he was going to do, he just acted on instinct imo. It doesn't change the fact that had the tweaker cooperated, all of this could have easily been avoided.
Again. Cops are trained on how to react in such situations so that when there is no time to think long and hard on what to do, they will do what their training has taught them to do. That's the point of training.
PANDAS
If you don't like them, then get the fuck out.
I apologize for any perceived trolling I may have done in this thread, including implying that RawStory was a reputable news source.
shut up nerd
I got my allowance but I spent it all on ice cream
Ok THIS is the one I saw on the news. Which is why I hadnt heard anything about the broken neck.
That's the same story?
Yea it is. Apparently they havent said anything about the broken neck in the article because that one is a few days old.
Oh dear god. Are you for real? "Yea, the dude might have had an AK47 in his mouth, you can't take chances like that". I am glad I don't see the world through your eyes, it must be so scary having this constant fear of people.
So we can use our addictions now as an excuse for our behavior?
"Honest to god, I shouldn't be arrested for beating off on the preschool play ground! I have an addiction to porn!"
"Get these cuffs off of me! I stabbed that man for his wallet so I could buy more crack! I have an addiction!"
I mean, sure the guy doesn't deserve to die, but that's going kinda light on him, blaming the addiction.
I don't think he was blaming the addiction and saying that it absolved the man of all guilt. I think he was saying his addiction explained some of his behavior. Being held accountable for one's actions is one thing, but deserving to die for them is another.
Honestly, I say a lot of dumb shit just rambling off the top of my head so I can understand what this might be, please just tell me that you didn't think this through before you posted it.
The difference here is that a person can't fit an AK-47 in his mouth, a pocket knife or a razor blade are a real possibility though. Having a constant fear of people probably isn't a bad thing if you're a police officer who constantly has to deal with belligerent/dangerous people who are under the influence of drugs/alcohol and you just pulled over some tweaked out guy who is refusing to cooperate and struggling with you while you try to figure out wtf he's doing and hiding from you. I'd probably be a little bit scared of the guy as well. Like I said before it's not like it would be a rare story if the guy did have something dangerous and stabbed/cut the officer and killed him.
This guy had a personal amount of meth on him how the fuck are you comparing that to stabbing a guy or masturbating on a school playground? Are you that fucking brainwashed? It is a little bit of drugs, you have no idea who this guy is and from the video he is not aggressive towards the cop, the only thing he does is freak out about the little bit of meth he had in his hand. You realize he would have gone immediately to jail for that and gotten fucked? So he was like shit what do I do, oh I know I'll swallow it he'll never get it then. So he tried to and he fucking died for it. He was addicted to one of the most addicting substances known to man and no one knows his circumstances for starting it or using it. He clearly wasn't some completely fucked up methhead, he seemed like a relatively normal person(for Louisiana) who had a drug problem. Why is this guy as bad as a pedophile or a rapist because he was addicted to meth? Most of you faggots need to crawl back into that hole you were in and stay there.
Let's run through the situation again. The guy won't open his hand for the cop. That's a big mistake right there and the cop deserves to be able to do whatever he thinks is necessary to make sure that his life and the lives of the public aren't going to be endangered by this guy. So a struggle ensues and the guy pops the mystery into his mouth and tries to swallow it. Now by this point they had suspected he was on drugs and they just watched him put something very small into his mouth and try to swallow it. Common sense tells you its most likely drugs but who knows maybe its a fucking razor he is gonna spit at you it could even poke an eye out. So the cop starts to choke him out in an effort to get him to spit it out. Now at any point in this like 6.5 minute long choke out the cop could have stopped what he was doing and handcuffed the guy, or if he was really worried still he could have called over a cop who was standing right there and asked for some help to restrain and cuff the guy. Even if the guy swallowed it, they can look through his shit and find the drugs, or make him puke them up. So did the cop think there was a time where he should stop this violent abuse of his power? Yea after he fucking broke his neck and killed him. The cop was in zero danger once the guy was getting choked and could have very easily subdued him in a manner that wouldn't have killed or even hurt the guy.
I'm sick of faggots on the internet acting all hardass, especially towards someone they would theoretically look down upon because of some flaw they have(in this case meth addiction). Guess what faggots, people make mistakes and they don't always deserve to die for them.
I'm sick of faggots on the internet who take up for the guy who died because of his own stupidity. He didn't die because he had a small amount of meth on him he died because he didn't cooperate with a police officer and struggled with him instead of doing the thing that any reasonable person does and stay calm so the cop can do his job. Have you ever tried to wrestle with a methhead? It's damn near impossible, putting handcuffs on him during that has to be ten times as difficult. Nobody is saying that he deserved to die because he did meth, fuck I do meth and I don't think that I deserve to die for it. What's being said here is that the guy made a dumb move and ended up losing his life for it. If I climb a power pole and get electrocuted, don't blame the power company because the wire was hot.
Again it's not like the cop blatantly judo-snapped the guys neck, it was an accident. Jesus fucking Christ dude.
In another article about the subject, it stated that the cop was trying to cuff him and got as far as getting one hand cuffed.
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